Question:
What resonators to use on vintage Conn soprano
I am about to replace the original white pads on a Conn C sop prior to putting the horn up for sale. I've decided to stay with the Conn reso type pads just to keep it close to original. But the originals have no resonator at all, just a stitch in the center (these are the original 1920 pads). So I find myself in the odd position of wanting to put the "press in" pads to keep it somewhat original but as long as I have to choose what resonator style to use -- I start wondering if I might as well use hollywood resos to bring out the sound. Seems like a huge contradiction to go with press in pads and then put hollywood resonators on it. But the main reason for going with the press in pads is so the new owner can easily put it back to vintage style pads. I'm mighty curious to see if I can hear the difference with hollywood resos -- but I suppose it would make more sense for me to try them on my Yamaha tenor and leave the vintage Conn more vintage style with plain rivet or flat metal resos.
So I guess the question is what resonators would be best choice for bringing a good ebay price on the horn? Or would leaving the worn out and leaky original pads be the best choice? This horn has never seen a repairman (or much use) since it left the factory and could come up nearly mint.

Answer:
I did have a stencil C melodey without resonators but sold.........

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Selmer Brown work exceptionally well, as do metal domes. I prefer the Brown as the sax is still very flexible and versatile with these reeds.

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If you are most concerned about selling price, I'm with Bootman - plastic or metal domes. Hollywood (Noyek) resonators are a personal preference thing and you won't get your money back for the extra cost of plated resonators.
My personal preference on soprano are Noyeks on all but the upper stack keys where I use seemless metal domes. Noyeks seem to cause A through C# to be a bit fuzzy since the resonators are fairly thick at the edges. I'm not a fan of Conn's snap-in pads. These really require a tech to install/remove them and don't add any benefit, IMHO.

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Thanks for these suggestions.
I am concerned about selling price. In fact that is my main concern. First priority is to get the best price I can for the horn. So what pads/resonators should I use for resale value?
I was just thinking that if it wouldn't negatively impact the resale price I would try the hollywood resonators just for the fun of hearing what difference they make. The extra cost would be worth it to me for the sake of trying them out. But not if it reduces the saleability of the horn.

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My own personal observation is that a horn with Hollywood resonators becomes less salable the further you get from Hollywood. :?

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I would go original style res-o-pads for resale as you won't turn off the collector type seeking an original horn, and most players would not take offense to flat metal resos. My Chu was done with the res-o-pads and was a killer horn with a ton of power and projection.

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Originally Posted by Jerry K. I would go original style res-o-pads for resale as you won't turn off the collector type seeking an original horn, and most players would not take offense to flat metal resos. Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I'm only turned off of the res-o-pads because the one set I bought from Ferree's was so bad (out of round, improperly sized, too thick). If you can get good replacements, res-o-pads are a good bet.

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My '23 Conn straight Bb sop has brown plastic resonators. I did not even consider what type of resonators it had when I acquired it (a trade from Gayle Fredenburgh). It plays with a huge, vintage voice.
I'm sure there are some buyers out there who would give strong consideration to how the horn is assembled, but for me it is how it plays that is paramount over all other concerns. Doing something to enhance resale assumes too many facts . . . you first must have a buyer and actually sell the thing before you can say that what you did helped the sale - a very subjective thing. DAVE

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I use the Selmer brown resos on both my Conn Straight Sops -- a 165,xxx and a 184,xxx horn. I find they give the horn a very warm sound. I think staying with the "mainstream" in resos, either Selmer brown or the Conn Resos is going to be your best bet in terms of resale value.
I really enjoy the Conn Straights. When they're set up properly they are simply wonderful sounding horns. If you miss on your setup, though, they can be awful.

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Thanks, all of you, for these ideas. This is exactly the sort of information I hoped to get.
I looked at Ferree's for resopads but many of the old sizes this horn uses are not in the current list. So I'm going with Ed Myers and sending in the original white reso pads for a perfect fit replacement set.
thanks again!

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I prefer to use a digital caliper (under $50 US) to measure the pad cups as the old pads can be hard to duplicate. Although I don't like ordering sets, by measuring each pad cup and writing it down, you will find a general size that was used. Example: if you measure the pads and 2 are 17.8mm, one is 18.2 and another is 18.4, you may find that the pad cups are all 18.2 and this is where the caliper comes in handy. Most makers use the same cups for same sized keys and the variance would be due to bent cups. I also favor the Brown Domed Resonators for the old Conns and my Wonder C soprano is great with them.

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yeah ... I have calipers and I have measured all the pads and pad cups --and found the closest common size. The problem is that Ferree's skips over many of the sizes (by 2mm in some cases) that my old horn uses so I would have to glue in several of the pads which sort defeats the purpose of going with original style resopads. If I have to glue them in, I might as well go with non reso pads.

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Originally Posted by Blaine Hoopes yeah ... I have calipers and I have measured all the pads and pad cups --and found the closest common size. The problem is that Ferree's skips over many of the sizes (by 2mm in some cases) that my old horn uses so I would have to glue in several of the pads which sort defeats the purpose of going with original style resopads. If I have to glue them in, I might as well go with non reso pads.
Is the instrument one with rolled tone holes? Have the original pads got the internal metal rings like the Reso-pads? Take one apart and see if there is disc of a metal foil underneath the skin. A soprano is the only Conn I haven't got, but if it was made to be fitted originally with Conn's ringed "Conn-foil" pads (the precursor to Reso-pads) it *should* have cup sizes compatible with the sizes made by Ferree's, but you may find that Ferree's pads are a *really* tight fit. I've never looked at the earlier Conn saxes before rolled tone holes came in, so can't say whether the pads were the same sizes.
I don't believe it's the case that Ferree's skip any sizes. Have a look through some of the other forum threads for my views on Ferree's pads. I believe that the thickness of the skins and the tolerances of the internal rings are not the same as the originals. Therefore many of the pads are overly tight to fit. Many of the larger pad sizes are not made very well and come out noticeably unround to the naked eye. A few other people have agreed with me on this whilst others have claimed to have had no problems in the past.
Michael

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Originally Posted by MTKilpatrick Is the instrument one with rolled tone holes? Have the original pads got the internal metal rings like the Reso-pads? Take one apart and see if there is disc of a metal foil underneath the skin.
Yes, it has rolled tone holes. The original pads are white with a stitch in the center rather than a resonator. The pads have the metal ring but no metal foil.
These original pads have the metal rings all the way up to the tiny sizes on the hi E and Eb pads. Ferree's pads would be glue in for all the small sizes and this horn also requires two larger sizes that Ferree's doesn't make in a reso-pad.
This horn is serial M144xxx so it is right in the range of good sops. But it is a C soprano and that may be why the pad cups are unusual sizes.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Blaine Hoopes Yes, it has rolled tone holes. The original pads are white with a stitch in the center rather than a resonator. The pads have the metal ring but no metal foil.
These original pads have the metal rings all the way up to the tiny sizes on the hi E and Eb pads. Ferree's pads would be glue in for all the small sizes and this horn also requires two larger sizes that Ferree's doesn't make in a reso-pad.
This horn is serial M144xxx so it is right in the range of good sops. But it is a C soprano and that may be why the pad cups are unusual sizes.
Hmmm, this doesn't sound right. Can you please tell me how tight a fit all of the Reso-pads are? They should be *pretty* hard to get in. If you are using a pad size that drop into the cup and rattles around a bit, loose, than that's the size too small! I found that the best way is to iron the skins against the internal ring using a piece of metal, heated up, laid on the desk, and rolling the pad along it under pressure. This tightens up and shrinks the skin and makes it a bit easier to push the pads in.
Regarding those two larger sizes, please can you try to measure accurately the *outside* (not inside) diameter of the keycup and let us know what it is?
I just don't believe that a 144xxx horn has cup sizes not fitting a pad within the set of Reso-pad sizes.
Also, I don't suppose you would save one of the old pads with the centre stitch, and post it to me? I would like to study one! All my instruments that still had some original pads had the foil pads.
Michael

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I haven't got any new resopads in my hands to try. I'm going by measuring my padcups and the original pads (which fit perfectly) -- and looking at the chart of what is available from Ferrees. Also talking to Ferrees on the phone and they tell me that they don't make those sizes.
Here is a list of the outside padcup measurements you asked for. millimeters:
35.3, 33, 28.5, 27, 25.8, 24, 20.8, 19, 18, 16.5, 14, 12, 11
All of those pads have the ring and press easily into the cup with a tight fit.
I'm sending the old pads to Ed Myers to have them matched up with new pads. I can ask them to return the old ones to me and then send you some if you want. If they don't have the right sizes they will make them from the old rings but they had a lot of the sizes that Ferrees doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Blaine Hoopes
Here is a list of the outside padcup measurements you asked for. millimeters:
35.3, 33, 28.5, 27, 25.8, 24, 20.8, 19, 18, 16.5, 14, 12, 11
I'm confused. Which exactly of the above cup sizes do not seem to have a Ferree's pad of the correct size? If it's the larger ones, I calculate that the cup-sizes and pad-sizes (in 32nds) should correspond as follows:
cup 35.3mm = pad 42/32
cup 33mm = pad 39/32
cup 28.5mm = pad 35/32
In that region, there are available pads of size 32, 35,36,37,39,42 and 44.
Michael

Answer:
Originally Posted by MTKilpatrick cup 35.3mm = pad 42/32
cup 33mm = pad 39/32
cup 28.5mm = pad 35/32
In that region, there are available pads of size 32, 35,36,37,39,42 and 44.
When I measure a 28.5mm outside cup, I get 27mm inside, about 34/32 and Ferree's doesn't make that size. You're telling me to cram a 35/32 pad into a cup that measures 34/32 inside? The 33mm outside cup measures 40/32 inside so the 39/32 seems to me to be too small. But I haven't tried these - perhaps they would fit in just fine being about 1mm too large in one case and 1mm too small in the other. I'm just going by measurements and by calling Ferree's on the phone who tells me they don't have those sizes. Ed Myers does have (or they say they do) all the inbetween sizes like 33,34,38, 40, 41 and 43 that are missing from the Ferree's line. Also the smaller original pads that have metal rings and press in are only available in glue in pads from Ferree's. I'd like to try to keep this horn as close to original as possible.
So ... thanks for the suggestions, but I've already sent my old pads off to have them matched exactly.

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Originally Posted by MTKilpatrick Also, I don't suppose you would save one of the old pads with the centre stitch, and post it to me? I would like to study one! All my instruments that still had some original pads had the foil pads.
Michael
I have my new pads now - made with the rings from my original pads. If you still would like some samples of the original pads I have them back but with the rings removed. These appear to be the original pads from 1920 or thereabouts -- no foil and no rivets. Just a stitch in the center and thread to pull the leather tight in back rather than glue. Very thin cardboard backing - not even really cardboard, just a heavy brown paper, very thin felt then a thick felt and then the leather cover.
If you still want a sample, give me a way to contact you.