Question:
What about the 28M Connstellation?
I've been reading up in all of the Conn listings here and I haven't noticed more than one or two mentions of the 28M? Why not? Are they really THAT rare? I mean I know they are not common, (~15,000 produced), but does anyone here own one? Anyone played around on one?
Here's the thing. Within the past 6 months I spent the money to splurge and get my first vintage alto (I'm a bari player by trade), a 1946-ish (283xxx) King Zephyr, delac, with a killer set of Noyaks in it. Long story short, for the horn, new case (old one was a death trap), MPC (Selmer super-session D, really love that piece with this horn), and the setup by my tech, I've dropped $1000 into having a really great alto to play on. This while not being anywhere near paying off my bari yet.
Then I'm down at my repairman with my bari another day and he shows me this alto he's had sitting in one of his cabinets. I had no idea what it was, and he wasn't super-sure either. He knew it was a top-line horn and was really innovative (triple octave vent and more). I went home and did my homework and turns out this alto is the CONN 28M Connstellation! I mean, what are the odds?!
Now, he knows I am getting to be a pretty big horn buff, so the next time I'm there he jokingly asks if I want to buy this axe from him. At the time I was completely not interested (I mean, I had just set up this alto and didn't [don't] have either the alto or my bari payed off yet), but the more I look into the history of these horns and what they offered, the more intrigued I am!
I mean,
A) they are very rare [aka, desirable to me].
B) from everything I have read, they are completely top of the line horns.
C) they were so innovative for their time that I'm sure they would stack up favorably against modern horns in intonation and keywork
D) who wouldn't want to own another piece of saxophone history?
I think I'm gonna give him a call about this axe. I mean, I don't even remember what kind of shape it was in. If it's playable, I'm gonna ask to take it out on loan. If not, I'm gonna ask what he wants for it as is, and if he will mentor me through the setup process for it (I'm also really interested in learning how to repair/restore saxes). We have a real good relationship, and he knows I'm a poor college student. I'm sure he would cut me a fair price on it.
But as it is, does anybody have any commentary on these horns? Any input? I'm so intrigued that I'm about ripping my hair out! What is the ballpark pricerange for these horns if they're in good condition? I remember that this one is missing the plastic keygaurd (at least I think it was). What is a fair price? Anyone have any comments on how they play? I'm psyched! :shock:

Answer:
Never played one but steve goodson talked highly of them on his saxgourmet website. The are apparently top flight. I think the big deal is the plastic keyguard being intact. Although I believe a alternative could be fabricated if necessary

Answer:
The 28Ms are rare and do play beautifully, but there are several factors contributing to their not being hot collectibles:
1) No widely known players are associated with them, ie: they just are not very "cool."
2) They don't sound or feel like Conns, which decreases their appeal to devotees of the "vintage American sound."
3) They don't sound or feel like Selmers either, which decreases their appeal to most everyone else.
4) They have the reputation of being very difficult to fix (I seem to remember taking mine in and having the entire lower stack removed just to change the spring tension on low C#).

Answer:
2) They don't sound or feel like Conns, which decreases their appeal to devotees of the "vintage American sound."
_ _
That's interesting . I'd never heard them mentioned as not sounding like
a Conn !
What make do they resemble, sonically, Paul ?
Is it a brighter sound more akin to a King of the period, or . . ?

Answer:
Also interested......how come they don't "sound like Conns"?
I want one though. Looks to have extremely slick keywork, but if it doesn't have that Conn sound....well, I don't know if it would be worth it :)

Answer:
The Conn to have is the 26M. Sweet!

Answer:
Thanks for all the replies. Good insight! You guys mentioned some things I've never even thought about, like why everyone isn't out there trying to get one and why not too many people have played one.
I wonder about the sound too. If a Conn doesn't sound like a Conn, what does it sound like? And I guess from what I've read they were supposed to have the fastest and most consistent keywork of any of the vintage horns (pre-VI). I've never heard that about them being hard to repair, though, but I guess if anyone would know, it would be my tech. I'll ask him about that. I'm gonna call him today anyhow...I think my Zephyr has settled in and developed a little leakage down low.
Anyone else with playing experience on this horn? Or buying/selling/trading one for that matter? Playability? Sound? Price?

Answer:
There is one on ebay at this time with intact keyguard. It's the best one I've seen on ebay in over a year. Never played one, though. I have a 6M and a 26M.

Answer:
I'd never heard them mentioned as not sounding like
a Conn ! What make do they resemble, sonically, Paul ?
[and]
If a Conn doesn't sound like a Conn, what does it sound like? 28M vs 6M (my perceptions): The 28M is brighter and more "ringy." It doesn't have the nice compact core of a French-type tone. It's a lighter, more metallic, slightly more focused variation on "the" 6M tone. I don't find it nearly as flexible or warm.

Answer:
Paul,
Been trying to catch you via email. Drop me a line when you can.

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ebay link

That's the ebay link. Nice pics.

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More pictures
There's another one in saxquest!


Answer:
took a look
Well, I got down to my repair tech tonight and had a look at the Connstellation after some chatting and the work on my horns. The Connstellation is certainly an impressive mechanical specimen. This particular one, however, was not so great. The horn was in rough working condition (it's been a personal project for my repairman which has been put off for some time). The octave venting mechanism and the G# mech. are the most interesting parts of this unique instrument.
There are two venting pips on the body that (should) open when the G key is depressed and close when the G finger is lifted. That didn't really work on this horn (needs new spring) but you could tell what it should do, and it makes sense.
The G# key is activated by a flat spring on the body, it's really unlike anything I had ever seen before. Most instruments have a round spring off under the rod work so that you can depress fingers below G while still keeping G# depressed (if that makes any sense...), but with this one, there is an actuating arm further in front of the body (in the middle of the keywork) that does the same with a flat spring. I've never seen that before. It worked well.
The keywork was quick and snappy for a horn that was fifty plus years old and overall hadn't been attended to for many years. The pads aren't anything I would want to play on (not terrible, plain no resonators, maybe 15 years old but not played on much) but despite there obvious age I could get down to the Bb. Not well mind you, but it would get there.
More about the instrument overall, it had been modified at some point in time. By "modified" I mean that some schmuck had removed the plastic keygaurd completely, and replaced it with an older (6M) wire keygaurd. They had removed all of the supports for the plastic keygaurd and the horn had been relaquered (around 15-20 years ago). I think this horn had been in the hands of a student, because no pro player would have allowed the keygaurd to be replaced or have it relaquered. Also, the plainjain student style pads are not anything a pro would have had put on his horn.
I was suprised by the key action. Fast, light, and responsive despite its obvious lack of care for some time. It felt much better than my King Zephyr (thought I'll put up with the tough keyplay for the sound that baby barks out...). I could really tell by handling and "playing" (if you can call it that on a horn that is in disrepair) on this horn that it was certainly top of the line for its time. I think the keywork even stacks up favorably with most modern models in my opinion. If that axe were lubed up and in adjustment, it would be pure finger lightning fo sure!
Intonation for the state of the horn was very very good. No big suprises anywhere in the scale. The tone would improve certainly with the work that this horn needs, but from blowing a little bit, it felt very centered and had a strong "core" sound. Didn't sound quite like anything I'd played before, not like most Conns, not like a King (maybe a later King or Conn), certainly not like the French saxophones, and not a Buescher by any means. It was very unique.
The relaq job wasn't great by any stretch. I haven't seen many relaquer jobs up close like this before, but I could definitely tell. The engraving was fine, but not as sharp as it would be new. The Conn "Music Man" symbol on the bell had the worst of the wear, but was totally there, just worn down a bit right in the middle of the symbol. I was really put off by wear around the serial number, which was barely discernible due to buffing and poor relaquer job. (337xxx if anyone cares).
So while this horn is really unique and was fun to examine up close, I don't think I'll probably pick it up. I told my repairman that if he ever gets it into working order I'd love to take it out for a real test drive. I wonder if it could be a good classical horn. That was more the impression that I got from my few minutes on it. Seemed to be a smaller bore horn and might be suited to that kind of work if the relaq job didn't ruin the sound. But we looked at it together and he realizes that this horn isn't worth all that much on the market to anyone. I don't have any money to pick it up right now, but I might offer him $200-$300 for it at another time if I find the money laying around. Plus he would enjoy having a real reason for fixing it up, and if I bought it for that price I might end up putting that much back into it (easily) to make it play.
We'll see how this situation plays out. It was an interesting horn and I was overall favorably impressed by the model (maybe not this particular example). I would suggest to anyone who gets a chance to check these horns out. Very unique, and with a sound of their own (I think...) If you find one you can play on, give it a shot and let me know what you think of one in good repair. I think I'll try to get my repairman to fix this one up to sell. He's a good guy, he deserves to make some money on a horn once. Thanks for listening guys!

Answer:
I wonder if it could be a good classical horn. There's no precedent. The tone concepts are defined around (basically) Selmer and Buescher sounds. Few accept both, never mind a third.
I think I'll take mine to a workshop this summer. :D