Question:
Vintage saxes?
Old timers, new timers, those faithful to the older saxes... a little help please?
I'm a senior in highschool and i've just put a band together (mostly jazz/funk with a little bit of everything else) i've been looking for a better sax for a while now (intermediate to pro) and have found some good deals on vintage saxophones on ebay.
First i was wondering if i should risk an ebay transaction, personal experiences maybe? thanks.
Also i was wondering about peoples experiences with and opinions on the old Conn chu berrys, the Selmer American New York USA, older conns in general, the Holton Rudy Weidoft model saxophone,Indiana saxophones, and the manufacturer V.Kohlert's Sohne (Czechoslovakian). Are these saxophones good? bad? and if they are worth looking further into what is a decent price to pay for one that is playable.
Also: are refinished saxophones something to stay away from? and what about those that have had dents removed? and what is a general price range to have an older sax repadded and to get new springs if needed? thanks
I really appreciate your time and effort to respond to my questions thanks again,
George

Answer:
George: I have purchased several old saophones off of eBay. I always went in with the idea that if I got it at a low price (no reason to try to match high bidding - there are plenty out there) that I'd still have to pay the price of a complete overhaul. But, I've never been burned and I've ended up with some really nice horns after the overhaul was done.
As far as refinished horns go, I have purchased some relacqs and they were nice horns. Unless you consider a saxophone to be an investment and not a player, you can do well with a relacquered saxophone.
Brand wise, that's anyone's guess. I have had some old Conns but I don't now. Every one I've had had intonation problems. That is not an indictment of Conns, merely my experience.
On the other hand, I've always had good experiences with Bueschers and have five in my possession now - all great players. If it were me, I'd stick with Bueschers or Selmers for vintage (I have both). For instance, while I have modern saxophones, my favorite two are a '28 Buescher TT soprano and a '49 Buescher Big B alto. DAVE

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I bought my Mark VI from ebay. You can do well on ebay - just have to know what to look for in the (sometimes minimal) pictures they give you.
Always look at the user's feedback and other items. "Dont know much about instruments" is an easy way to plead ignorance at faults in a sax - but does not hold much meaning when the seller has sold hundreds of the things previously.

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I have never purchased a horn off of eBay that did not require some serious attention by a tech before it was playable. EBay is a nice place to shop, so long as you make sure that you have up to the cost of a complete overhaul in your budget. There are always great deals in Conn, Buescher, Buffet, King and Martin horns. Oddly, vintage Selmer horns sometimes go for as much as a dealer would charge, though on occasion there is a great deal. As for specific pricing, the best way is just to search eBay, both its current offerings and its completed auctions. As for buying a vintage sax from a dealer, one great place is
A great guide to the value of vintage saxes is found here:
(If you buy a really old horn, make sure it has an aux F key.)

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a very good deal for vintage horns right now is the King Zephyr (tenor and alto) - they play great, can last you the rest of your life, and are nicely priced on Ebay and elsewhere.
Re: Selmer - I would buy an older Selmer model 26 (big bore), Cigar Cutter , Radio Improved before I would buy a Selmer USA horn. Generally speaking Selmer USA wasn't made by Selmer at all. The older horns can play really, really well, and you get used to the older keywork pretty quickly. I know several pros that play on Selmer 26 large bore tenors. These older horns can be had for a fraction of the their brothers from the 1950s, 1960s etc.
Pan American is another brand to check out. I forget which company they were a stencil of, but the horns are very well made in my experience and the three that I have tried played really nicely.
Beuscher, Martin, Conn, Pan American, older Selmers, Buffett SDA if you can find a nice one, King ... I wouldn't go with any of the lesser known brands unless you can play the horn first. Some of these can be great, but by and large the consistancy is not as good.

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Pan American's were Conn stencils I beleive.

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Pan American is a stencil of Conn. They're pretty much Conns without rolled tone holes. Most players don't care, but I happen to favor the rolled tone holes because there is more surface area to help the pads seal.
That price guide at saxgourmet.com that ThomasK mentioned is crap. Those prices are only right if the horn was bought and immediatly stored in a closet until recently, when it got a new set-up.
I would agree with ThomasK on everything else though. If you don't have a decent tech in your area, I would go for one of the reputable internet dealers, another one is .
With that said I would like to put in a good word for a few horns. If your on a budget, one of the best horns you can get is an old Conn. Chu-berry, or even, a pre-chu. The intonation isn't perfect, but it really isn't as bad as most people make it out to be. If you have a good ear it wont take you long to play in tune. I think it is an alright compromise for that tone, nothing sounds like a Conn. Also as mjago named, Buffet. The Super Dynaction and S-1's are great horns. They're a little easier to play than the really old horns, but they still make a beautiful sound.
Beware, the vintage sax market is addicting.

Answer:
It really takes a while to learn the ins and outs of Ebay. How to quickly spot fraud and minimize risks is something that takes real training. I spent years lurking on Ebay before ever even making a purchase. And I'm not even talking about buying saxophones here... yet. Before I joined up, I had an Ebay experienced friend buy and sell for me until I was comfortable with it. Now once you're comfortable with Ebay (and you might already be), I still wouldn't hunt for vintage saxophones without the guidance of someone well versed in serial numbers, model distinctions, and having the ability to judge the condition of a horn with very little to go on. For me to suggest brands that I might prefer, or offer a few Ebay tips here and there, ultimately will set you up for heartbreak and loss of funds. You need to know Ebay and you need to know saxophones, to mix the two and find that diamond in the rough.

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I'll second the recommendation for Buescher (pre-Selmer buyout, of course). A vintage Buescher is hard to beat in terms of sound, ergos, intonation, and price.
refried hope is right about the saxgourmet value guide. It's not bad in terms of general info, but there are enough errors, imo, to throw you off.
I think you're way better off going with a reputable dealer who will set the horn up properly and give you a trial period, than with ebay, unless as Grumps says, you really know what you're doing......in which case you wouldn't need to be asking for advice here. Along with the other dealers mentioned above, try .

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i think you should remember the saxgourmet value guide is sort of dealing with the vaule for a "perfect" instrument bought from a dealer. so it has no real relevence to ebay sales unless the horn is "perfect". (many of these horns don't exist in perfect condition).
i think the best thing to do is figure out a budget and then check out junkdude and other dealers and see if they have anything in your budget.
also as you said you were in highschool, i woudl check with your teacher (assuming you have one).
also remember vintage horns play differently than modern horns, lots of people complain about intonation problems on a lot of these horns that are not the fault of the horn, if you are willing to work with the horn and use a reasonible setup, it should be fine.
lastly if you are on a real budget, you might might to look at some of the later conn horns, they will play well and while not worth much money can be great horns. i had a student that had an early 60's 10M tenor that was an absolute scream to play.
if you were my student with a budget of up to 1000.00 i would recommend you look at chu on up conns and and 30's on up martin pro horns.
good luck.

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thanks for all your help guys i'll keep the tips in mind

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there is a Buescher sax on ebay right now Serial # 87498 selling as an alto sax. It has what looks to me to be a tenor neck however. Is this actually a tenor sax or did the older horns have the same style necks (alto and tenors both being curved or goosed...you get the idea)?

Answer:
Could be a C-melody that the buyer mistakenly labeled an alto. C-mels are smaller than a tenor, bigger than an alto, and had a tenor-like neck (at least the Bueschers did - I have one). That serial number is really low, too. Post the link and one of us can take a look at it. DAVE

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Originally Posted by SAXYwkbrdr there is a Buescher sax on ebay right now Serial # 87498 selling as an alto sax. It has what looks to me to be a tenor neck however. Is this actually a tenor sax or did the older horns have the same style necks (alto and tenors both being curved or goosed...you get the idea)?
This is exactly why you need an experienced eye for vintage horn purchases on Ebay. I saw that same horn. Now you have to ask yourself how close you came to bidding on it. Because if you did, you'd basically have wasted your money. It's a C Melody, with no real modern application. Not only that, but even if it were an alto or tenor, with that serial number, it would be missing a front F, the roller G#, etc., etc. I'm not on your case or anything, but even with some helpful hints from the forum members, you're heading for heartbreak. There's just no way you're going gain the experience necessary to pick out a decent Ebay horn by reading a few posts. Even if you do luck out and find something decent, posting about it here will only alert other interested forum members to the sale, and you're asking for a bidding war. It's great you came here to ask questions (especially about that C Melody), but I'd avoid Ebay if I was you.

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listen to grumps, ebay is not the website of deals it might have once been. stuff can be had at a good price if YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. if you don't chances are the, i know nothing about saxophones seller knows more than you.
go to the junkdude website he has lots of reasonibly priced vintage horns and he's very straightup to deal with (i have no affiliation).
again, with these vintage horns, they are not for all tastes and while there are great aspects of them there are also drawbacks, you should really trye horns befopre buying.

Answer:
Well grumps, you seem to be aptly named but your advice has been taken into account. No i didn't come too close to buying that horn because i dont have the money right now thats why i'm asking about horns here and there hoping that maybe by the time i do have the money i have a little more knowledge. I dont have the funds or accesibility to dealers to be too awful picky though so there isn't much i can try at the moment before buying. i know its not recommended but i may have to sacrifice the trials and go by some opinions and hoping for luck. i will check out those other sites like junkdude however. thanks again

Answer:
It can actually be a lot of fun combing Ebay for bargains; even if you're not going to bid. It can also be an obsession. I took the plunge and picked up several nice horns that way, but only after much research. I've also helped others by sending them links to auctions I thought might interest them. The only trouble with that is if you get a real clunker, you'd be the one taking the risk. I approach Ebay expecting the worst, and realize I'm gambling. I also assume (no matter what the seller promises) that any horn will need a complete overhaul. Doing your homework can minimize risks, but not eliminate them. Pete's site is a good place to start learning about vintage horns:

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SAXYwkbrdr
I was in the same boat as you a while back. Not much money and limited chances to try out horns. The beauty of the vintage sax market is that the saxes don't lose value, so if you know your stuff you wont lose any money on a resale. As you said it's not recomended, but if you buy from a reputable dealer wtithout trying it out what's the worst that can happen? You don't like the horn so you have to sell it and try again? (most dealers do have trial periods though).
I guess I'm just reasuring what you were saying above, but I would stay away from ebay for awhile until you've played a few horns and know what to look for a little better.