Question:
Yanagisawa "buzzing" high A and B
OK, I bought this horn new back in December (S992) and loved it right from the get-go. However, it has this issue where as I play, the high A and B get this kind of buzzing quality to them. Usually, if I stop playing and go play those notes again or blow harder the buzzing goes away. I can't for the life of me figure out what is causing it. The only thing I notice is the the 'C' pad (the one with the hole in it) can be pressed down more with my finger when it is supposed to be closed. The pad on top of it sticks constantly and almost seems worn. I also thought maybe one of my left palm key pads was off. I don't want to have to ship this back to where I bought it unless I absolutely have to. Any suggestions? Is this something the guy in Syracuse who responded to me before can address? My local tech didn't really know or didn't seem interested. I just fully want to enjoy this horn problem-free.

Answer:
It honestly sounds like it needs a visit to a tech for some adjustments and perhaps a replacement of a dirty/sticky pad, rather than anything you can do easily at home. Where are you located? Perhaps see if anyone has any other recommendations for another local tech.

Answer:
Originally Posted by patseguin Usually, if I stop playing and go play those notes again or blow harder the buzzing goes away. I can't for the life of me figure out what is causing it. The only thing I notice is the the 'C' pad (the one with the hole in it) can be pressed down more with my finger when it is supposed to be closed. The pad on top of it sticks constantly and almost seems worn. I also thought maybe one of my left palm key pads was off. I don't want to have to ship this back to where I bought it unless I absolutely have to. Any suggestions? I have had the same problem on the tenor sax, and a not-quite-sealing C pad was the cause, so definitely have the horn regulated by a good tech. Even after I had that problem fixed, I still sometimes experienced the buzzy high A, especially when I haven't been keeping my chops up like I should. I sort of became ultra-sensitive to this problem because it was so frustrating when it first started happening.
After eliminating any mechanical issues, I found the two most important things to getting rid of the buzzy A is first and foremost - lots of practice, sorry no short cuts - long tones, arpeggios, octave jumps, and overtones. The second thing though, is to make sure your reed isn't fighting you. I have found that when my reed starts to get old and worn out, the buzzy A can start to return, but grabbing 5 or 6 new reeds out of the box will usually yield 2 or 3 that I can play on trouble free for a few more months. Heck, I have even noticed that being quick and lazy about putting my reed on can cause problems if the reed isn't matched to the mouthpiece tip very well.
oh and BTW, you should probably try to find a new tech if he didn't seem interested in regulating your horn. I mean, you've got Yani. Correct me if I am wrong, techs, but don't you guys love working on Yanis?

Answer:
Thanks for the tips. I find it hard to believe that the buzzy high A and B is my chops or technique. I played my Yamaha soprano for almost a year with NEVER a buzz like that. I do find that soprano takes more chops than alto so I work hard on it. It seems like the effect happens when I am playing into the note. I don't think it's happened when I just sit there and play a high A or B. The middle D now seems to want to jump down an octave on me. The Yamaha exhibited none of these issues but I loved the sound quality on the Yani to keep it.
I took it to the tech and asked him to look at the horn for any problems since I had it on trial from Prowinds. He found a leak just by looking at it and did a 5 minute adjustment. I managed to get the buzz to happen and also asked him if the C pad was supposed to go down more when it's already supposedly closed. He said he didn't know too much about that design. Maybe he didn't like that I didn't buy a Cannonball. This was Steve Wingrove in Tonawanda, NY. Not to be mean, but I kind of wonder if he is used to band instrument repairs and not so much pro repairs. This is the same guy who tells me Selmers come fine out of the box, which is 100% contrary to what I read on SotW.

Answer:
Patesguin: I just looked at my S992, recently overhauled by Scimonetti in California. I think that vented C# device is unique to modern sopranos - both my S992 and Antigua 590 have it. I don't recall previously owned Selmers and Yamahas.
It is designed to give C# better intonation. The lower pad is vented in the center and the vent is covered by a smaller, upper pad during the fingering of certain notes.
For instance, when C#3 is played, the lower vented pad covers the tonehole while the upper smaller pad remains fully open. When the octave lever is released, playing C#2, the lower vented pad raises fully and that tonehole is totally uncovered.
There are no half-movements on my S992 and 590 . . . the tone hole is either fully open (C#2) or fully closed (yet vented) on C#3. All other notes (except where the stack keys are left open - C#) have that tonehole fully closed.
I have no buzz as you described. I think you need to find a tech who is familiar with this feature and have him/her fix it so that it works as I've described. DAVE

Answer:
Originally Posted by patseguin This is the same guy who tells me Selmers come fine out of the box, which is 100% contrary to what I read on SotW.
You must be reading Gordon's posts and not mine. Both of my Selmer tenors (III and Ref 36) have been fine out of the box. Granted, I made adjustments to make each of them better, but they played well when factory fresh. Funny that EVERY Selmer that Gordon sees in New Zealand is bad. My Ref 36 was shipped from New Zealand. I wish Gordon could have seen it. It might have changed his mind. 8-)

Answer:
Originally Posted by Dave Dolson I think that vented C# device is unique to modern sopranos - both my S992 and Antigua 590 have it. I don't recall previously owned Selmers and Yamahas.
It is designed to give C# better intonation. The lower pad is vented in the center and the vent is covered by a smaller, upper pad during the fingering of certain notes. The Selmer SIII sopran sax that I saw a couple of days ago had that mechanism also.
Originally Posted by Dr G You must be reading Gordon's posts and not mine. Both of my Selmer tenors (III and Ref 36) have been fine out of the box. Granted, I made adjustments to make each of them better, but they played well when factory fresh. Funny that EVERY Selmer that Gordon sees in New Zealand is bad. It is not impossible that companies send the leftovers to far away countries with a small market where people don't have much of a choice to even realize they are not getting the best instruments. I actually know a lot of people around here who flew to other countries to buy their instruments.
When I went to the local Buffet & Selmer dealer I tried a Buffet A clarinet and a friend tried three new Selmer Reference altos. All of those instruments were poor...... the Buffet A was honestly the worse clarinet I've ever played (I couldn't believe they even let me try it in this condition).

Answer:
Originally Posted by Dave Dolson Patesguin: I just looked at my S992, recently overhauled by Scimonetti in California. I think that vented C# device is unique to modern sopranos - both my S992 and Antigua 590 have it. I don't recall previously owned Selmers and Yamahas.
It is designed to give C# better intonation. The lower pad is vented in the center and the vent is covered by a smaller, upper pad during the fingering of certain notes.
For instance, when C#3 is played, the lower vented pad covers the tonehole while the upper smaller pad remains fully open. When the octave lever is released, playing C#2, the lower vented pad raises fully and that tonehole is totally uncovered.
There are no half-movements on my S992 and 590 . . . the tone hole is either fully open (C#2) or fully closed (yet vented) on C#3. All other notes (except where the stack keys are left open - C#) have that tonehole fully closed.
I have no buzz as you described. I think you need to find a tech who is familiar with this feature and have him/her fix it so that it works as I've described. DAVE This mechanism is also on Selmers starting with SA80. I have seen the bottom pad done with a normal pad that someone had just punched a hole through, leaving the raw leather edge and felt exposed. When the pad got a little wet, the leather would stretch and buzz. I have used cork pads on the lower key in this stack with a hole punched and it makes a pretty big difference in the response of these sopranos. When I got my personal Yani S991, that was one of the first things that I did, even though it had a proper leather pad. (I also cork the palms and high F#/G). Once you get cork right on these pads, you may never have to mess with them again.

Answer:
Well, you learn something every day, even from non-repair techs. Thanks.
I repair hundreds of saxes every year, but in my small market I don't get a lot of newer sopranos (or sopranos)- I'm the only soprano player I've heard of here. Thanks for the info. It's good to know that someone is at least trying new things on sopranos. Sopranos need all the help they can get.
Don't be too hard on Jerry (Syracuse) or Gordon. These are probably the greatest techs you are ever going to know. I'm sure Jerry would do anything at all to make your horn work perfectly. (and succeed at it.) I'm absolutely sure he will guarantee all his work.
When I bought my MK VI tenor new at Rayburns in Boston 50 some odd years ago, he put me in a practice room with a bunch of reeds and mouthpieces. I tried at least 15 MK VI tenors out. They all played differently. That's probably because of the way they made them back then. Don't ever expect to buy a horn and have it play the same as every other in its brand out of the box. It won't happen.
Hans

Answer:
Often a buzz is some metal part resonating to a certain frequency and hence vibrating against another part. Sometimes it is unlubricated low key rollers. Sometimes a loose lyre screw. Sometimes a high note key's long rod vibrating against a support post. Somtimes a spring where it goes very close to the metal of the key. Sometimes it is unlubricated parts of the octave mechanism, or the linkage for side C & side Bb. Many possibilities.
While you are making it buzz, get another person to listen for the vicinity, and touch parts in that area, to see if any finger touching stops the buzz.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Dr G You must be reading Gordon's posts and not mine. Both of my Selmer tenors (III and Ref 36) have been fine out of the box. Granted, I made adjustments to make each of them better, but they played well when factory fresh. Funny that EVERY Selmer that Gordon sees in New Zealand is bad. My Ref 36 was shipped from New Zealand. I wish Gordon could have seen it. It might have changed his mind. 8-)
I don't play them straight out of the box. I check them over, and find faults. Sure, I could probably play through many of those faults too, but shouldn't have to.

Some of the faults are minor. And you obviously found these too. But often they involve substantial work, eg a seriously sticking G# pad on a SIII sop. Or as is very common, leaks under the most inaccessible pads. For some of these pads, especially on a soprano, adjustments MUST be fully made BEFORE more keys are assembled over the top of those keys. There is a pattern here, suggesting that Selmer does not bother with adjustments until all keys are mounted, at which time they leave adjustments that are inaccessible or difficult to access.

These are only two of many examples. I once made a long list in this forum. Touch wood.... in the last year I think there has been some improvement. If that is in any way because of the list I made here, then so much the better!

To be fair, I think that there are technicians and players who would not notice what I notice.

And yes, as Clarnibass suggests, this may well be worse in my country, which is as far away as they can send their instruments that have possibly been returned to the factory. And most difficult to send back! Anything is possible. However in this forum certain other people in larger countries have backed me up with their own experiences.

Also, to be fair, my experience is not from just two instruments. I see far more than that of new Selmers per year.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Dr G .... Funny that EVERY Selmer that Gordon sees in New Zealand is bad. My Ref 36 was shipped from New Zealand. I wish Gordon could have seen it. It might have changed his mind. 8-)
For many years, I have worked on almost every Selmer Paris instrument that arrives in NZ. It is quite likely that I worked on yours before you got it shipped from NZ.

BTW, my experience is that ref 54 saxes are in better condition than SII & SIII. This is in part because the mechanism is in places simpler than some of these models. And so far I have not seen a Ref 54 Sop, if that exists.