Question:
50's &60's Rock$Roll
What kind of tenor's and mpc's did those guy's use for the vintage sound?

Answer:
Gene, When we started collecting the photos for "The History of Top 40 Saxophone Solos-1955-2005", I found that the m/p's covered a wide range as did the horns. Photos show both white and black plastic or hard rubber and metal m/p's. The horns include Selmer, Buescher, King and others.
Actually, I also found that the tone of the players also varied a lot depending on the record. The sound varied from "Tequila" to "Honky Tonk" to "So Rare." A lot depended upon the recording techniques, EQ on the sax and if it was a dry sound or filled with an echo chamber.
A few players also started to get into m/p alteration according to their bio. Many simply used a stock m/p. I do not recall when the "baffle" concept became popular which obviously had an influence on many players. Brands of reeds varied from cane to plastic.
Other aspects that are interesting are the various styles that players had depending upon their background. Johnny & the Hurricanes (metal m/p) differed greatly from King Curtis (metal and HR) who differed from Chuck Rio of "Tequila" (plastic/HR) or Lee Allen (plastic).
In short, a multitude of variations. However, the "rock & rollers" did have, as a general rule, a different approach to their technique and tone than many of the "R&B" players. That was also seen in the early rock & roll movies. But that is a whole different discussion!

Answer:
John,
Does the book you speak of (History of Top 40 Saxophone) Come with a recording. Is it available currently? Although I've studied jazz & Classical (BlahBlahBlah) I remember days of watching Shanana - and really digging Lenny's (I think that was the saxophonist name) solos. I've spent some time (not much) looking for various recordings of 50's soloists with mixed results. You book sounds like a great resource.
Thanks Tony

Answer:
Mpc's
Wev'e got a band starting featureing 50's&60's music but listening to the recordings they have a mellow or tame sound maybe earthy or natural compared to today;s sound so the question is what metal mpc could I use to fit, my V-16 is to bright ,only metal or is there rubber mpc's that have the same outside feel in circumference as a metal that I could use?

Answer:
The V16 is a fairly flexible piece. I'd recommend trying some different reeds. Maybe something more classical-oriented like Vandoren blue box would give you the sound you're looking for.
I gotta say, though, the players in this style that I often try to emulate wouldn't be described as either 'mellow' or 'tame'. King Curtis, Chuck Rio, also Sam Butera, Richie Canata, Lou Marini, the list goes on. All fairly raucous cats (relatively speaking, of course).
JJ

Answer:
This is to John Laughter,
How would you characterise that difference in tone & approach bewteen the R&B players and the rock & rollers?

Answer:
In terms of "mellow" check out anything by Red Prysock and especially "Hand Clappin", or Lee Allen on Little Richard's "Slippin' and Slidin'", Sam the Man Taylor on Nappy Brown's "Don't Be Angry", King Curtis on the Coasters' "Charlie Brown" and "Yakety Yak" , Herb Hardesty om Fat's Domino's "I'm Walking", and Charlie Scott on Bill Doggett's "Honky Tonk Part II."
This should give you a reasonable overview of the various styles played in the 50's, and when I say that I acknowledge that I am only scratching the surface, with a host of other enormous players like Gene Barge.
For a modern session, check out John Ferreira's great work on Colin James "Boogie Twist II".

Answer:
Originally Posted by jentone I remember days of watching Shanana - and really digging Lenny's (I think that was the saxophonist name) solos.
Hey tony you sparked a memory for me. I saw Shanana way back in 1970 and I remember they had a fine tenor player who played some great solos. John L, do you know who the sax player was with Shanana at that time (1970-'71)?

Answer:
JL, Shanana;
jentone, the book is on CD (311 pages in WORD) and comes with a CD recording of 17 tracks by modern day players who contributed the tunes to be sold with the CD book. The book contains many photos, bios and historical points of interest for Billboards' Top 40 hits from 1955-2005. It also includes many other selections due to their historical significance.
It is an ongoing project and will probably never be published in book form because we continue to add songs and edit the bios and history as we obtain more info. Preface/Forwards written by Plas Johnson, Dave “Woody” Woodford and UK’s Snake Davis. The two CD set is $10.00 plus postage;
U.S. $1.00
CANADA $1.00
U.K. $1.60
You can obtain more info and can order the CD set from me. Just drop an email to
I also have free 63-page list that can be sent via email. It lists the hit song, singer/group, type of sax and the sax player if we were able to locate the name. No bios/photos or historical info.
This project was started in 1995 and was put together by dozens of contributors on the Internet as well as a U.K. sax player who helped with the British hits. That was a real education for me! I had never heard these songs. I had to download every hit to confirm that a sax solo was on the recording before we added it, which leads me to another part of your question. I've spent some time (not much) looking for various recordings of 50's soloists with mixed results. Take the free list and start downloading the songs and you will get an education! We have so much to learn from the Top 40 rock/r&b sax players. You might be surprised to find out how many jazz and classical sax players scored a Billboard Top 40 hit.
Lenny, I will add some thoughts about your question asap. Let's also hear from some others regarding your question;
How would you characterise that difference in tone & approach bewteen the R&B players and the rock & rollers?

Answer:
Originally Posted by John Laughter Take the free list and start downloading the songs and you will get an education! We have so much to learn from the Top 40 rock/r&b sax players. You might be surprised to find out how many jazz and classical sax players scored a Billboard Top 40 hit.;
GREAT ADVICE! Since I have been playing mostly Rock and R&B since last year, I have found some great ideas in a lot of these tunes. So far, I have downloaded some of the ones I recognized, now I have to start with all the ones I don't! So many great rock and r&b tunes, so little time.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Lenny How would you characterise that difference in tone & approach bewteen the R&B players and the rock & rollers?
I'll take a stab at this. First of all, there was quite a bit of overlap between "R&B," "rock & roll," and "jump blues," during the '50s and '60s. So the terminology isn't all that clear and, in fact, such terminology is more a result of marketing than anything real. I want to qualify my answer with that point.
R&B sax players tend to have a smoother tone, maybe a bit brighter tone, and use less of the growl or flutter tongue, than rock & rollers. There is also a taste of the gospel sound in early R&B, if I'm not mistaken. Also, in general, you'll find more horn sections (sax, trumpet, maybe bari or 'bone) in the R&B genre, with the lone tenor more common in rock & roll or blues.
Early rock & roll pretty much came right out of jump blues, which in turn was derived from a blues-based swing style, using some big band riffs. So horn sections were also used in jump blues, but the sound was harder-edged and more raw than what you normally hear in the R&B sound. I believe R&B was coined a bit later than early rock & roll or jump blues, but I may be wrong about that.
Having said all of this, you'll find a wider variety of sax styles within these genres than you might expect. Just as in the jazz arena, players tended to develop their own style. For example, listen to King Curtis, Jr. Walker, Red Prysock, and Sil Austin, and you'll hear quite a variety in terms of tone and playing style, even though these could all be classified as "rock & rollers." Although Jr. Walker might be more of an "R&B" player, I guess.
Hope this helps.

Answer:
Lenny, just to add to JL's good points,
Going back to the 50s and 60s the following examples, IN GENERAL, illustrate some differences between the R&B’er and Rocker. You really need to download and listen to the solos to appreciate the various styles.
R&B
AT MY FRONT DOOR-EL DORADOS-RED HOLLOWAY-TENOR
TWEEDLEE DEE-LAVERN BAKER-SAM “THE MAN” TAYLOR-TENOR
HONKY TONK (PARTS 1 & 2)-BILL DOGGETT-CLIFFORD SCOTT-TENOR
I CAN’T LOVE YOU ENOUGH-LAVERN BAKER-SAM “THE MAN” TAYLOR-TENOR
I’M IN LOVE AGAIN-FATS DOMINO-LEE ALLEN-TENOR
LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL-SHIRLEY AND LEE-LEE ALLEN-TENOR
LONG TALL SALLY-LITTLE RICHARD-LEE ALLEN-TENOR
SLIPPIN’ AND SLIDIN’-LITTLE RICHARD-LEE ALLEN-TENOR
SLOW WALK-SIL AUSTIN-TENOR
QUEEN OF THE HOP-BOBBY DARIN-JESSE POWELL-TENOR
WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE-FRANKIE LYMON & THE TEENAGERS-JIMMY WRIGHT-TENOR
BONY MORONIE-LARRY WILLIAMS-PLAS JOHNSON-TENOR
OOH POO PAH DOO-PART II-JESSIE HILL-DAVID LASTIE-TENOR
Rockers
AIN’T THAT A SHAME-PAT BOONE-?-TENOR
AT MY FRONT DOOR-PAT BOONE-?-TENOR
LONG TALL SALLY-PAT BOONE-?-TENOR
TWO HOUND DOGS-BILL HALEY AND HIS COMETS-JOEY D’AMBROSIA-TENOR
RAUNCHY-BILL JUSTIS-BILL JUSTIS-ALTO
TUFF-ACE CANNON-ALTO
WHITE SILVER SANDS-BILL BLACK’S COMBO-ACE CANNON-TENOR
RED RIVER ROCK-JOHNNY & THE HURRICANES-JOHNNY PARIS-TENOR
REVEILLE ROCK-JOHNNY & THE HURRICANES-JOHNNY PARIS-TENOR
TALL COOL ONE-WAILERS-MARK MARUSH-TENOR
FORTY MILES OF BAD ROAD-DUANE EDDY-STEVE DOUGLAS-TENOR
And a few that would be difficult to place in either category;
REBEL ROUSER-DUANE EDDY-GIL BERNAL-TENOR
KEEP A KNOCKIN’-LITTLE RICHARD-GRADY GAINES-TENOR
As JL indicates, in some cases there is a fine line between the styles and techniques and you really need to listen to all of the examples to appreciate the various ideas.
Some people feel that the “R&B” players formed some of their style by performing not only for the upscale uptown night clubs but also for the roadhouse dancers and back alley clubs of their days as well as listening to the jazz greats and jump blues bands. Some would suggest that these musicians played with a little more expression, emotion and imagination and go beyond the “standard” techniques with the use of more lip bends, gliss's and a little more grit in some cases. Some used to call it “soul” or “getting down.” Whatever the case, they caught the attention of many young players.
“Rockers” produced some great ideas and sounds and were very effective. Some writers feel that some of them stayed within the basic ideas and techniques for uncomplicated entertainment. And that can be a good thing for record sales. Some added sound effects which were good. Some referred to the rocker style as “wailing” or “hip.” As JL indicates, often the playing included the flutter and growl. And in some cases a lot of air forced through the horn for some real strong projection. With the exception of a few individuals, I do not believe that a lot of the “rockers” saw or played for the same hip grinding crowds in the dives that some of the R&B guys were close to in those years. However, some of the clubs that the rockers played could get rowdy in their own way on the dance floor! I believe that sock hops were more the order of the day for the young sax player. And I do not say that in a negative sense by any means. It was just the way it was for many of the musicians.
Both styles (and the ones in between) and attitudes always had a place to play and an audience. Both had followers. Both helped to fill the dance floors with fun, sweat and excitement. Both contributed to early growth of the new Top 40 Rock/R&B sound. In the 50s and 60s a beginning sax player had a lot of styles to choose from which formed many of our habits, likes and dislikes.
Again, this is just a basic surface explanation. The musical styles went much deeper.

Answer:
Very cool guys, Thanks.
Its great to just get a new handle on how to think about those styles.
John, I notice that you didn't mention King Curtis, is that because he could play in so many styles?

Answer:
Lenny, you are correct;
HANG UP MY ROCK AND ROLL SHOES-CHUCK WILLIS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
THE STROLL-DIAMONDS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
THIS LITTLE GIRL’S GONE ROCKIN’-RUTH BROWN-KING CURTIS-TENOR
WHAT AM I LIVING FOR-CHUCK WILLIS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
LITTLE EGYPT (YING YANG)-COASTERS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
ALONG CAME JONES-COASTERS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
CHARLIE BROWN-COASTERS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
SOUL TWIST-KING CURTIS-TENOR
I HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE-GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
MEMPHIS SOUL STEW-KING CURTIS-KING CURTIS-TENOR
ODE TO BILLY JOE-KINGPINS-KING CURTIS-ALTO
RESPECT-ARETHA FRANKLIN-KING CURTIS-TENOR
He had the ability and knowledge to cover many styles including jazz.

Answer:
Hey great stuff, John. Thanks.
By the way, looking over John's list I think I was being a bit too broad in my idea of early rock & roll (which points to the problem of trying to pigeonhole this stuff). It would appear that "R&B" in that time period is the more inclusive catagory, with tunes like Honky Tonk, Slow Walk, Let the Good Times Roll, etc. Then you have all the Wynonie Harris stuff ("Good Rockin' Tonight") which I think spans R&B, rock & roll, and jump blues. And yes, King Curtis bridges all the catagories. I'm not sure we can separate these catagories in any meaningful way. Better to just listen to each player and pick up what you can. There are many similarities and differences among them all.
Finally, a lot of the sax "rock & rollers" of this period were also jazz players (Plas Johnson, King Curtis, Red Prysock), and we know how hard it is to define the term jazz. Same with "blues." You know it when you hear it and the labels really can't be isolated. For example, imo, it ain't jazz without the blues.