Question:
Improvisation
I retired three years ago and one of my post-retirement projects was to learn to play the tenor sax. I depend on instructional books and CDs and the wonderful sound of my jazz heroes in no particular order: Ben Webster, Charlie Parker, Leo Parker, Jimmy Forrest, Zut Sims, Sonny Rollins, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrain, Scott Hamilton, Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis, Gerry Mulligan, Houston Person, and others.
I had no instruction but I can read music and I can transcribe a song from a C instrument to the B-flat sax when that's necessary. I can play about 280 tunes (from music) and about 5-6 by heart. Currently I am looking for anyone who could give me advice regarding improvisation.
I would very much like to learn improvisation, particularly blues improvisation. Is there a good source of blues licks that's readily available? Given that I'll not enroll in the local conservatory to take courses in harmony, is there another path to improvisation?
Any advice and suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Paul

Answer:
pkwinter,
i am not an expert improviser but this should get you going...
1st start with the 12 bar blues.
1. memorise the chord changes. fatten the chord up atleast quad chords
2. memorise the notes that make up each chord
3. then tap a jazzy 1 bar rhythmic phrase then convert that in to a melody using only notes from 1 chord at a time
4. so here you have a bank of 1 bar phrases for you to play
5. use these melodic phrases to play againt the chord progression
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now as i said it is a good way to start but soon you will realise that they sound very isolated or random then you could start experimenting with connector notes and other techniques to tidy up your solos
do some research on the following
1 motiff development
2 motiff modification
3 repition
4 scale cells, chord cells , penatonic cells
5 chromatic ornamentation
6 deflection
7 telescope

Answer:
I'll tell you what I did and helped A LOT. This isn't the orthodox way of learning improv, but it works great.
I basically learned how to make simple compositions off of Pete Thomas's website and other similar sites, and that gave me a great understanding of chords and their relations. Eventually, I got good at making melodies, expanding them, and modifying them. Naturally, I started speeding things up and practicing composing in real time. Things really started picking up pace and now, I can say that I am a better than average improviser for my age.
MORAL OF THE STORY: IMPROVISATION IS REALTIME COMPOSITION.

Answer:
you don't have to enroll in a school to learn about harmony, or to get solid help with figuring out improvising. have you thought about taking a lesson or two with a jazz player in Toronto to get you going. you'd probably have a lot of fun, and you'd certainly learn a lot.

Answer:
pkwinter
You're obviously listening to lots of jazz which is great definately one of the most important things.
Get a good understanding of jazz theory. Check out The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine, it's very detailed and easy to understand.
Learn you scales and arpeggios inside and out as wall as common chord progressions (ii-V7-I). Also patterns, figures and licks in all twelve keys.
Trasncribe solos. Find a solo that you like and lift it off of the record. Try to get to where you can play along with the recording.
Also try to find someon to study with in your area. I see that you are in the Toronto area. I've heard tha there are some good teachers around there.
I hope this helps you
Chris

Answer:
Play and study this ;




and- check the Bird lick here-from " nows the time"...

This will be fun stuff- go slow . .. . listen and apply.:)

Answer:
In addition to the other suggestions I strongly urge you to learn the other 275 tunes that you can read but don't have memorized.
This would be a great way to learn to improvise because you would really have the tune in your HEAD . You would know the FORM cold and then if you could memorize the HARMONY you would be able to IMPROVISE

Answer:
You wanna play blues, huh? Good man.
I learned to improvise playing the blues, and this's how I did it: I walked into a blues jam with a paper with blues scales written on it. I had played around with the blues scales in the keys of A, Ab, G, E, and C (keys I was told were common at such jams), and I did pretty well my first time.
I'd practice to BB King and Stevie Ray Vaughn CDs, as well as some tunes from the Blues Brothers movie. I listened to their improvisations and tried to mimick their techniques. That's how I started, and I can play a really mean blues, so... those are my suggestions.
Oh, by the way... if you'd like, send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you a copy of the blues scales I used. The scales can be found almost anywhere, but this sheet I've got is really legible. While I played, I'd glance down at the sheet at my feet to refresh my memory in case I forgot what notes were in the scale. I know, I know, it's cheating, but it was my first time improvising in public, okay?

Answer:
Hey PK, you aspire to a worthy calling, the blues is a ton of fun, easy to get started on, and you can make it as complex as you like, as you progress.
I started out on alto as a kid, then dropped it at age 20 to play bass and guitar for a lot of years. Fast forward about 30 years, I decided to get back into sax and have bought a tenor (my main axe), a bari and a soprano. About 6 or 8 months ago I started playing sax in a blues band, tenor and bari, and we're doing gigs and getting paid for having fun!
There were several things that got me off to a good start that might be of help. First, know your theory, so if you don't know it, get an easy book and learn the basics. Learn your blues scale and pentatonic scale in all keys. After that the key is to listen and emulate. Get some CD's and pay attention to how some of the blues greats build their lines and phrases and how they bend their notes and such. I like to put on a CD and during the sax solos I'll hear a cool line and try to echo it in real time, or if needed pause the CD and figure it out. My favorite stuff to work on is Stanley Turrentine playing with Jimmy Smith. Easy keys, simple progressions and orchestration, but very soulful and bluesy. Another guy I like to copy for interesting rhythm ideas is Maceo Parker.
I've tried using books to learn blues and that's okay, you'll get some building blocks, but overall you can't learn blues from a book, you have to do a lot of "listen and emulate".
I still aspire to jazz and I work on it, but I think blues gives you quicker gratification and helps you on the road to jazz.

Answer:
Just copy the stuff off the record... then copy the stuff that you hear in your head.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Master.America You wanna play blues, huh? Good man.
I learned to improvise playing the blues, and this's how I did it: I walked into a blues jam with a paper with blues scales written on it. I had played around with the blues scales in the keys of A, Ab, G, E, and C (keys I was told were common at such jams), and I did pretty well my first time.
I'd practice to BB King and Stevie Ray Vaughn CDs, as well as some tunes from the Blues Brothers movie. I listened to their improvisations and tried to mimick their techniques. That's how I started, and I can play a really mean blues, so... those are my suggestions.
Oh, by the way... if you'd like, send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you a copy of the blues scales I used. The scales can be found almost anywhere, but this sheet I've got is really legible. While I played, I'd glance down at the sheet at my feet to refresh my memory in case I forgot what notes were in the scale. I know, I know, it's cheating, but it was my first time improvising in public, okay? I THINK PK is talking about JAZZ blues, not BLUES BLUES! They ARE related- but the connection is pretty tenuous! Stevie Ray, and B.B.King come from a WAY different place, than Bird, ect. Kind of like Jr. High, and College. Don't get me wrong, I love, and play both schools.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Chris Mickel pkwinter
You're obviously listening to lots of jazz which is great definately one of the most important things.
Get a good understanding of jazz theory. Check out The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine, it's very detailed and easy to understand.
Learn you scales and arpeggios inside and out as wall as common chord progressions (ii-V7-I). Also patterns, figures and licks in all twelve keys.
Trasncribe solos. Find a solo that you like and lift it off of the record. Try to get to where you can play along with the recording.
Also try to find someon to study with in your area. I see that you are in the Toronto area. I've heard tha there are some good teachers around there.
I hope this helps you
Chris This is GREAT advice!!!!!

Answer:
All of the above suggestions are good but if you want it all explained simple,simple ,simple, pick up Chase Sanborn's 'Jazz Tactics'. It spells it all out in easy to understand chunks and everythings keyed to Aebersold recordings so you've got someone to practice with.And if you're still stumped, just give him a call. He's right in town!You can also contact Mark Eisenman( piano and theory),Mike Murley (tenor) or Pat Labarbera ( tenor ). That's a bunch of heavy hitters all right next to you!

Answer:
Originally Posted by asaxman I THINK PK is talking about JAZZ blues, not BLUES BLUES! They ARE related- but the connection is pretty tenuous! Stevie Ray, and B.B.King come from a WAY different place, than Bird, ect. Kind of like Jr. High, and College. Don't get me wrong, I love, and play both schools.
Blues blues, Jazz blues, big band swing, jazz swing, swing ballads and jazz ballads... bah, blues is blues in my eyes.

Answer:
Jamey Aebersold Jazz
Hi pkwinter,
In addition to the other suggestions, and if you haven't already, you might want to consider the . Included are articles on soloing, the 12 blues scales, Improvising: Playing the Blues, Create Interest When Soloing & Starting a Phrase or Melody, and many others.
That will give you an idea of a the sort of material contained in the Aebersold play along books in case your not familiar with them already.
I really enjoy improvising with the Jamey Aebersold play alongs. My Volume 1 - How To Play Jazz and Improvise Book came with a CD that includes a total of 21 tracks, 10 to play along with, 1 with tuning notes, 1 to with verbal instructions, and the rest are demonstrations with Jamey playing lead. I found hearing the demonstrations helpful. This play along might be a good place to start, depending on your interests.
For practicing my scales and improvising, I very much enjoy playing along with the music included on the following Aebersold play along CD's: Volume 2, Nothin' But the Blues (includes some blues licks), Volume 42, Blues in All Keys, Volume 57, Minor Blues, Volume 24, Major & Minor in Every Key. (I also have many other Aebersold play alongs that I enjoy practicing with depending on what I'm working on.)

Answer:
All/any of the above. One other little aid: get out and PLAY WITH REAL LIVE PEOPLE. Go to a blues jam. Go to a jazz jam and play a standard. Take some chances. Don't wait until you are perfect 'cause it'll never happen.

Answer:
Hey pkwinter!
Some great advice in this thread (and always just on the verge of an argument about some fundamentally unanswerable question:) ). This is what makes SOTW great (IMHO).
On the topic of blues, I'm on both sides: you'll find that most of the improvisers you listed start with and build on blues ideas pretty regularly, but that they add a whole range of harmonic and scalar material which you won't necessarily find in "standard" classic Chicago or Texas blues. There are exceptions, of course, like T-Bone Walker's guitar playing for example, or Eddie Vinson on alto sax. By the way, if we're talking about good blues people to listen to for improvisational ideas, T-Bone and Cleanhead would be at the top of my list (certainly ahead of BB or SRV).
For my two cents, I'd like to reiterate Ssleb's point: for example, definately Check out Tim's iim-V7 patterns listed on the main SOTW page. They're great as is, but you can also isolate chunks of them and use them to make little songs to improvise on while thinking about the chord that you're actually playing over. I've memorized all the V7 patterns from those exercises, and I've often found myself playing them (or something alot like them) as my little "lead in" phrase when taking a solo.
Also, while I agree very much about using the blues scales (and pentatonics), I'd also say that I have found that what makes the "blues" played by jazz players so great (and mine pretty lame) is that it is not tied to these scales or, to put it differently, how often their licks are based on, say, major scales or bebop scales etc. Consequently, jazzier players can take his/her solo home, so to speak, by really emphasizing a basic blues scale or pattern in one chorus. You'll find a million examples of this in your Houston Person cds.
Good luck!
Rory
ps. I wouldn't bring a sheet of blues scales to Grosman's if I were you. I know a harp player who had his cross harp tonics listed on the inside cover of his harp case, and the derision and ridicule he took for this was merciless.
pps. sorry to bump, but hey Off-Kilter who's Chase Sanborn?

Answer:
yahman... im totally behind you in the conservatory harmony course. alot of players try to "fake" harmony and theres no way around it, you have to learn it. i think its admirable that you've decided to take the sax more seriously, and you will only benefit from conservatory training. however, once you've learned the harmony, you should take things into your own hands by contacting a teacher in toronto and start having more fun by applying your newfound harmony into tunes you love. i've got the berklee harmony books, and im in toronto if you would like to borrow them you are more than welcome. please email me at

Answer:
re Chase Sanborn: