Question:
benefits of reed sizes
I know this might sound somewhat elementary but what are the pros and cons of increasing or decreasing your reed size. I am playing on 3.5 vandoren blue box and have been thinking of going back to 3's. How would this help or harm the tone on my sax. Im looking for a full classical tone with lots of vibrato at the moment. If you have any answers to my questions please post. Thanks.

Answer:
A reed size should be increased if the reeds are not achieving full dynamic potential, are so soft they are causing you to bite pretty quickly, and are wearing out quickly.
Reed size should be decresed if the reeds are blowing pretty stuffy, feel like they are too hard on your chops/are wearing you out quickly, and are basically just giving you a lot of trouble with control and good tone production.
Soft reeds feel like they lack resistance. Hard reeds feel like they have too much resistance.
The size that works for YOU and your mouthpiece is somewhere out there. If you're not experiencing the above problems, you should stick with what you have.

Answer:
In addition, hard reeds tend to darken your sound, soft reeds will brighten it. Soft reeds also produce more buzz in your sound and can sound somewhat "edgy".
Reed strength also varies with mouthpiece design. A narrow tip usually calls for a hard reed, a wide tip for a soft reed. However, facing length also contributes to this equation. A short facing calls for a soft reed, a long facing a hard reed. When you consider all the variables and then add in player preferrence the combinations are endless.
Most classical players play a close tip mouthpiece like the Selmer C* and use a hard reed with it. This will give you the dark "classical" sound and somewhat easier control compared to the typical jazz and rock setups that use wide tip openings and softer reeds.

Answer:
[/quote]Reed strength also varies with mouthpiece design. A narrow tip usually calls for a hard reed, a wide tip for a soft reed. However, facing length also contributes to this equation. A short facing calls for a soft reed, a long facing a hard reed.
Most classical players play a close tip mouthpiece like the Selmer C* and use a hard reed with it. This will give you the dark "classical" sound and somewhat easier control compared to the typical jazz and rock setups that use wide tip openings and softer reeds.[/quote]
The Selmer C* does not have as close a tip opening as for example, a Caravan or a Buescher. I do know a few players who have used a hard reed on the Selmer mouthpieces, but most that I have spoken with use a softer reed (3-3.5). On the Buescher (for example), I use much harder reeds (in some cases a 5).
With regard to facing length, holding a Selmer and a Buescher side-by-side should reveal that the Selmer has a longer facing than the Buescher, which has a shorter facing. So reed strength would be reversed (softer on a longer facing, harder on a short facing).

Answer:
I'd agree with Brian. As far as facing goes, all other factors being equal, a shorter facing calls for a harder reed, whereas a longer facing calls for a softer reed, if one wishes to achieve a similar sound in both cases. The reason is that in a longer facing, more of the reed is being acuated into vibration, and the further you go down a reed's length, the harder it becomes. This equates to a more difficult blowing. If the reed is slightly softer, the resistance will even about rather than being too great. Likewise, if a soft reed is used on a mouthpiece with a shorter facing, the contact pivot of vibration is at a soft point, so the blow will feel too "easy" and lack resistance.
Due to the vibration properties of reeds, some facings will tend to get longer with time and heavy use!
A long facing and a harder reed is a good thing if you want to achieve a very dark and deep sound. Shorter facings with softer reeds are conducive to a brighter, more punchy sound. You may notice the tips on some "contemporary" (rock, jazz, etc.) mouthpiece have a short facing and a large tip opening. This combination is very conducive to a louder, brighter sound.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Razzy a shorter facing calls for a harder reed, whereas a longer facing calls for a softer Razzy, don't you mean the other way around, as Brian said?

Answer:
Nope, this is what Brian said:
Originally Posted by BKauth So reed strength would be reversed (softer on a longer facing, harder on a short facing).
I then agreed with this statement, and finally proceeded to explain in detail why I do so. But if Brian meant something differently than the way I took it, I disagree: refer to my above post for details :D

Answer:
:oops: Yes, I see now. But I respectfully disagree with both of you, unless I continue to misunderstand. A reed will play easier on a longer facing than on a short facing. As Vandoren says on their web site "With the same tip opening: long facing = stronger reed, short facing = softer reed." So I agree with Riff.

Answer:
I disagree with what Riff said about hard reeds being darker and soft reeds being brighter. I have found, in many cases, that a hard reed on an open mouthpiece will produce a sound that is loud and bright. Likewise, there are plenty of players who get a very dark sound with soft reeds. Classical players often get the mindset of "Oh, I'm going to switch up to a Vandoren 4 so my sound will be darker." There are plenty of factors to change in how you play that will achieve great results - no sense in beating yourself up over the hard reed myth. Pick whatever plays easy for you.

Answer:
I dunno about bright vs. dark, but I know softer reeds do tend to "buzz" more whereas harder reeds tend to "fuzz" more. More than anything, the chamber will affect the amount of overtones in the sound. A common mistake is to associate larger tip opening with a brighter piece. It just so happens that a lot of the bigger tip opening pieces and metal pieces out there also have higher baffles than pieces that run in smaller tips or are made of hard rubber. "Faulty association" it's called and is common among even the smartest of us! Heh, and I think my post up there contains some of this... it goes without saying that rock and contemporary pieces tend to have large baffles and a chamber that facilitates said sound; the tip opening and facing are designed to allow the reeds to react well to this chamber design.
It does better to look into the physics behind things. I think my explanation as to why longer facings respond better to softer reeds and vice versa makes sense, I've experienced this in action on the pieces I've tried. Anybody with more experience care to back up the opposite opinion with a physical explanation? Gordon??
Also, to a much lesser degree, smaller tip openings are usually brighter, and bigger tip openings are usually darker, for me anyhow... provided I've got reeds to suit and I'm not blowing my head off.

Answer:
I agree with Razzy. The terms bright vs. dark are very subjective and reed strength is probably the least contributing factor in that debate. Mouthpiece design is the real determinant here. In my experience, harder reeds result in what "I" consider to be a darker sound. (Just to make a point, I consider Coltrane's sound to be bright, many others call it dark. Take your pick. :| )
Regarding the long/short facing issue:
A short facing with a given tip opening means most of the reed is clamped to the table by the ligature. Therefore, only that part of the reed which is not clamped can vibrate. Conversely, a longer facing with the same tip opening, leaves more of the reed suspended away from the side rails allowing more room for the reed to vibrate. This is why harder reeds vibrate more readily on long facings than short facings. The point of contact between the reed and the end of the facing curve acts as a fulcrum. The further away the fulcrum is from the tip, the more reed there is to "flap in the breeze", if I may put it that way. :) It's simply the principle of leverage.
(Compare the Berg Larsen 'SMS' facing curve to any of the Rovner designs. The Rovners have such a long facing you can actually see it in the pictures on his web site.)

Answer:
While there are some 'tried and true' reed adages, it ain't all gospel. I use a Rico Royal 4 or 5 on a metal Otto Link 9*. Should it work? Probably not. Does it work? Absolutely.

Answer:
While there are some 'tried and true' reed adages, it ain't all gospel. I use a Rico Royal 4 or 5 on a metal Otto Link 9*. Should it work? Probably not. Does it work? Absolutely.
But how long is the facing? How much baffle? Mouthpiece design is chock full of compromises. After a point, the wider the tip opening is, the longer the facing curve has to be. And conversely, there's a limit to how long a facing can get while the tip opening can continue to widen. This is not to say there are no exceptions but geometry plays a big part in this issue.
A Link 9* has a tip opening of .125". This may be bigger than the average but it's not that unusual. The amount of baffle, chamber size and facing curve all play a part in the reed strength equation.

Answer:
Originally Posted by retread :oops: Yes, I see now. But I respectfully disagree with both of you, unless I continue to misunderstand. A reed will play easier on a longer facing than on a short facing. As Vandoren says on their web site "With the same tip opening: long facing = stronger reed, short facing = softer reed." So I agree with Riff.
The key here is same tip opening . Many mouthpieces with a longer facing actually have a larger tip opening than the mouthpieces with a shorter facing. If two mouthpieces (one long facing, one short facing) had the same exact tip opening, then what is quoted would be true. But if the mouthpieces had different tip openings (which they usually do), a softer reed would respond better on a mouthpiece with a larger tip opening than on one with a small tip opening. This can also be verified by taking two of the same kind of mouthpiece and only refacing one of them so that the tip opening is wider. Match a reed to the original mouthpiece and you will find that the same reed will feel harder on the refaced (more open) mouthpiece.
If you would like more information, take a look at Frederick Wyman's dissertation on mouthpiece acoustics and design. It is available from .

Answer:
Originally Posted by Riff Regarding the long/short facing issue:
A short facing with a given tip opening means most of the reed is clamped to the table by the ligature. Therefore, only that part of the reed which is not clamped can vibrate. Conversely, a longer facing with the same tip opening, leaves more of the reed suspended away from the side rails allowing more room for the reed to vibrate. This is why harder reeds vibrate more readily on long facings than short facings. The point of contact between the reed and the end of the facing curve acts as a fulcrum. The further away the fulcrum is from the tip, the more reed there is to "flap in the breeze", if I may put it that way. :) It's simply the principle of leverage.
All those principles are exactly what I was saying, except for the harder reed part. I still don't understand physically why a harder reed will work better with a longer facing curve. Wouldn't less hardness equate to being easier to actuate into vibration if the facing was longer? The reed gets thicker and harder toward the butt end, therefore with a longer facing and same tip opening, the fulcrum occurs at a much HARDER point in the reed than it does on the mouthpiece with a shorter facing. Therefore wouldn't it be more difficult to put into vibration? Or is it somehow easier to set a harder reed into vibration when much more of it has to vibrate :? Are you also saying that as the facing curve gets longer and longer, it's more easy to play with HARDER reeds? Imagine the extreme case of this: the facing curve so long that the fulcrum point occurs at a much thicker part of the reed. I somehow don't think this would be much easier to play if I chose to use much harder reeds than I would on a smaller facing. That thickness of reed being set into vibration... jeeze! I just don't see logically OR physically how this works, and nobody's explained it yet. Anyone?

Answer:
All those principles are exactly what I was saying, except for the harder reed part. I still don't understand physically why a harder reed will work better with a longer facing curve.
The issue isn't that the reed works better or easier. The point is that there is a give and take in mouthpiece design. If the facing length remains the same, a wider tip opening will require a softer reed in order to maintain the same resistance to the player. But, if the facing curve gets longer as the tip opening gets wider, then the reed strength can remain constant with no change in resistance to the player.
For example, a .090" tip with a medium facing may work well with a #3 reed, but increase the tip to .100" and you may want to switch to a 2-1/2 reed in order to avoid the increase in resistance.
However, if you increase the tip to .100" AND increase the facing length to long, then you can probably stay with a #3 reed and not notice any increase in resistance.
As far as the physics go, think of it this way.
You're lifting a boulder with a fulcrum and a lever. If the fulcrum is close to you, you have a very short lever with which to move the boulder and it probably won't work. But put the fulcrum closer to the boulder and you have effectively increased the length of your lever. You can now move the boulder easily.
Increasing the facing length is like moving the fulcrum closer to the boulder. You have more reed (ie:lever) to move and it's easier to set the reed into motion.

Answer:
I put the reed on the piece, the piece in my mouth, and I play. I have no idea about the lay or this and that. It's an old Link that doesn't look like much but is able to play changes at fast tempos and plays in tune. Other than that, I don't care much about the physics or geometry. My point was simply that while everybody is concerned with what should work, people oughta experiment and find what works for them.

Answer:
I put the reed on the piece, the piece in my mouth, and I play. I have no idea about the lay or this and that. It's an old Link that doesn't look like much but is able to play changes at fast tempos and plays in tune. Other than that, I don't care much about the physics or geometry. My point was simply that while everybody is concerned with what should work, people oughta experiment and find what works for them.
Very well said... Use what works and don't worry what the stats are of what you use. I have two pieces on tenor. A high baffle "Dukoff" (Saxtech) copy that's a .95 tip with a legere 2&3/4 that rocks, and a otto link 9 with a legere 2&1/2 that rocks as well, maybe harder. lol Never the less, my best friend told me I was crazy for playing a Link (and he hasn't heard me on it) for rock and roll and pop. Oh well... I will continue to use what works for me.