Question:
Guidance...*sigh*
Here is my story. After many struggles with bad teachers and people telling me I wasn't good enough, I got lucky and my college hired a wonderful teacher a few years ago who has totally changed my life as a musician. He challanges me and inspires me to work hard. I've gone from being a mediocre player to a girl who is preparing to play a full senior recital with challanging music. He has helped me to believe in myself, and I have improved more than I ever thought I would. He believes in me, and when I told him I was unsure of what I wanted to do musically in life, he has convinced me to go to grad school and eventually teach college and hopefully perform as much as possible. This has been a dream of mine for YEARS but now I'm finally going to persue it, and I am so excited.
But I am worried. I am embarrased to admit that I am not a very good jazz player. I never got the opportunity to play in a jazz band until college, so I am still learning what the hell I am doing even though this is my 5th year at college. I don't have a clue how to improvise, and just overall, Ilack in that area. I have always concentrated on classical sax and that is what I truly love. Playing jazz...actually kinda intimidates me. I don't know why.
But I am worried that this jazz thing is going to really hurt me. I mean, how can I truly be respected as a professional saxophonist and educator if I'm only well-knowledged in one area? I am so worried about this.
I want some honest answers and good, solid advice. Is this going to hurt me, or is it okay? I want to be the best I can possibly be in my musical career. I have wortked hard to get where I am, and I want to go far in life. My teacher believes I will; I just doubt myself because of the jazz thing.
All replies are much appreciated!!

Answer:
...But I am worried that this jazz thing is going to really hurt me. I mean, how can I truly be respected as a professional saxophonist and educator if I'm only well-knowledged in one area? I am so worried about this....
No, don't worry like that. You respect jazzers for what they do, and jazzers will respect you for what you do. Don't let the "doofuses" :twisted: worry you. We can't all do everything, we ain't all Wynton Marsalises. :lol: All players start/come from the same ilk, learn the basics of the horn, then branch out; albeit jazzers don't use the horn exactly the same way as legit players. Just listen to some jazz, form your own understanding of the music, when you talk to a jazz person, you'll have an understanding that will be mutually recognized.

Answer:
Re: Guidance...*sigh*
Originally Posted by saxysai I mean, how can I truly be respected as a professional saxophonist and educator if I'm only well-knowledged in one area?
Honestly? I'm not sure you can be unless you are truly exceptional as a classical player, and that doesn't mean getting good grades in school music classes, it means having a national, if not international performing career.
Unless I was the dean of a school of music with a very classical-oriented program, I personally would not hire a sax teacher who was not excellent in both areas. As far as jazz playing, you might not have to be the best improvisor in the world but you should be at least a good lead player. And you sure should be able to cut the lead player in the university jazz band.
There are undoubtably some college programs who would hire a classical player who didn't meet the requirements I mentioned above, but I'm not sure how often such an opportunity would come along. And jobs are getting tighter every year.
I'm not meaning to be harsh and maybe there are other opinions that vary with mine. But my suggestion would be not to dwell on the negatives but be very proud of yourself for what you have accomplished so far and build on it. The question is not what are your deficiencies but what are you going to do about them? These thing take time.
Another word of advice that I am really sincere about is be careful not to misrepresent yourself to your potential employers or students. It will catch up with you at a most inopportune and embarrasing moment. I would not suggest that you would deliberately do that but getting a job is so competitive it's natural to play up one's resume as much as ethically possible and one can get trapped by doing so. So I would suggest being very clear about what your strong points are and what you can do best and not leave a potential employer with unfulfilled expectations later on after they've hired you.
You've still got grad school ahead of you so you will spend some of that time finding out more about the college teaching job market. Spend some of that time checking out teachers at other colleges and find out what their backgrounds are and what they are teaching.
In the meantime, I would suggest not worrying too much about not being a jazz player. You've got your recital to play. First things first. And good luck.

Answer:
For some music educators it's marching band that presents a challenge. For you it's jazz. Like Gary said, you limit your hiring opportunities if you specialize. But if that's where you passon is, maybe it will work out.
It's a tough world out there and you have many decisions to make. If you continue to forego jazz training, then maybe it's more about doing what you love vs. doing what is necessary to land that job as a music teacher.

Answer:
What a superb group of postings!! I wish every poster (especially those who can't spell or punctuate, or choose to use those senseless, contrived abbreviations) would read this thread and walk away with an example of how to post on SOTW. WOW! DAVE
PS - Coincidentally, I just finished reviewing/editing a draft lesson plan for a friend - it addresses trad-jazz oriented horn players wanting to learn how to improvise. It was a great piece of work - very simple and basic, but should be helpful to anyone who wants to play their instruments without written music. /D/

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Just a thought, and correct me if I'm wrong. If you enjoy classical music, maybe you should learn clarinet in addition to studying saxophone. My impression is that clarinnets are used a lot more in classical music and used less (though still a lot) in jazz. They are surprisingly very similiar instruments and there's no harm done to learn it. I taught myself clarinet after learning sax.

Answer:
PS - Coincidentally, I just finished reviewing/editing a draft lesson plan for a friend - it addresses trad-jazz oriented horn players wanting to learn how to improvise. It was a great piece of work - very simple and basic, but should be helpful to anyone who wants to play their instruments without written music. /D/
Dave,
What you have just written is interesting. I play the occassional gig (pop music at the moment but my goal is to be the first jazz saxophone gigger in Miri 8) ) Would it be possible to share some of what you have just mentioned? I play by ear and am only now struggling to work with written music. Learning and playing the horn alone is quite challenging. How I wish there are saxophone teachers here.
Saxysai,
I share the same feelings especially when I come from a place where people don't normally appreciate jazz. I don't think I can give advice but I remember what another SOTW member told me. Go where the bread money is. Hope this makes sense. Just a thought, play what gives you the joy most not what people thinks you should play. Good luck.
Cheers,
Doremifaman

Answer:
Unfortunately, the draft I reviewed is unpublished and still a work-in-progress. I cannot send it around. However, it is a five-lesson plan which discusses being able to sing/hum a tune, and then relate it to the do-re-me type of scale (with numbered chords as well as notational chords as well) interpreted through a horn (in this case cornet/trumpet, but should be applicable to saxophone, clarinet and most other single-note instruments). There are recorded examples throughout the lessons. A very interesting approach, mainly geared to so-called Dixieland-style music (we like to call it trad jazz). I know this is a teaser, but maybe someday soon, it will be marketed and then it would be available to anyone who wants it. From what I've read on SOTW, the need for ear-training is a very popular subject. DAVE

Answer:
Dave,
Would definitely like to check it out once its ready. Ear training is certainly my cup of tea :) .
Cheers
Doremifaman

Answer:
saxysai,
As you have most likely learned through your classical training, there is no such thing as a "magic key". It takes hours and hours of hard work. Jazz is no different from classical in this respect. It is the approach that is different.
Think of jazz as a language like Spanish or French. Spoken languages are a spontaneous art form where words and phrases are put together depending on the context and conversation--the more vocabulary and phrases you know the more effective speaker and conversationalist you can be. Pronunciation is important as well and can only be learned from listening to others as they speak.
Jazz must be approached as you would a spoken language. It takes years to become competent in another language, no? Same thing with jazz. You have to listen (to learn pronunciation and phrase usage), practice saying phrases (practice licks), learn vocabulary (scales and chords), and later on learn to tell stories in a coherent and orderly manner (good extended solos).
I like to make this analogy: Classical music is like a poetry reading where you orate another person's poem and make it come alive. Jazz music is where you not only make a poem come alive through similar oration but you're required to make it up as you go along too! The latter is a true challenge as it tests your technical skills AND creativity.
Think of learning jazz as a baby learns how to speak--through mimicking. Play along with some jazz recordings, over and over and over and over. That's the best way to get started.
Don't get discouraged. Anyone can play jazz. It's not a question of "if" one cay play but "how well" one can play it. Hope this helps.

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Thanks to everyone for the insightful replies. It is certainly much appreciated!
I guess I should clarify a few points that I didn't originally say. I have been in one of the jazz bands here since my first year; but it's the second one. The "good" one has had the same players for so long, and they're great players so I've never progressed from this second jazz band.
The good news is the director of my jazz band is also my sax teacher, and he uses the ensemble not just for us to play, but to learn about jazz and its history. I have learned some...but I just panic when I think about my future because I just am not that knowledged. I have actually been lead for the last few years...but I don't improvise. I have no clue where to start. The thought of it makes me want to throw up. I know this is ridiculous, because I'll never learn or get better if I don't try. But I just can't make myself do it. I always give my solos to the 2nd alto. As far as knowing how to play jazz, and approaching it...I feel pretty comfortable. But I don't improvise. How awful is that??!
And as far as general knowledge about jazz...I know some, but not really enough. When some of my sax friends discuss jazz, I can't join in because I don't know. But classical, I know inside and out. I can discuss works and composers and performers because I know so much. Jazz....nothing.
I just feel like I am doomed because I will graduate next spring...and I don't even know if any good grad schools would take me, considering my jazz problem. I just don't know what to do. If I was a freshman, this might not be so bad cause I'd have plenty of time to learn...but the clock is ticking.
Keep the advice coming...it is really a huge help.

Answer:
I've never been a big jazz guy. I've been in a half-dozen really decent jazz bands and I've occasionally backed up some jazz "stars", but I've never really been into jazz.
If you were to ask me what my favorite "jazz" group is, I'd say the Dave Brubeck Quartet and my favorite jazz player is Paul Desmond.
I love playing classical, though. That's what I've generally played, even for auditions and such. Because I've almost always played bari, I've got the entire Bach cello suites to choose from. Challenging on cello or sax!
I do recommend that you get yourself a little more well-rounded. I don't think that not having a jazz background really is that big of a deal, unless you play gigs all the time -- and ANY non saxophonist that hears that I play sax will come up to me and say, "So, do ya play jazz?" (and/or, "Hey, I like that Kenny G dude, too. :evil:)
The more important thing, if you're going to teach or conduct, is that you know a bit about each "major" genere and can explain what the differences are, how they got there and why.
As a couple folks mentioned, you should take up the clarinet, too. The college I attended, at least, required you to take strings, brasses, reeds, piano, voice, etc. If you play sax and don't play clarinet, it's not a bad thing, but it does limit you -- and, at the very least, you can play a gig where sax and clarinet is required, like a musical or jazz ensemble.
As far as improvising goes, tho, that's a different skill. It's in classical, too, ya know (obbligato). I can't say that I'm excellent at coming up with a solo on my own, but, especially with bari, I just have to stay in the chord structure and remember that dotted-quarter, eigth is my friend :D.
There are quite a few areas on this 'board and all over the 'net that should be able to help you with improvising, but remember: it is a skill and you have to practice it.

Answer:
saxysai,
I would think that someone with the opposite problem of yours would be in a more difficult position in finding a job. (ie. a jazz player with a poor classical background) I realize that jazz has made tremendous breakthroughs into the college curriculum in recent years, but classical is still the main thrust in most schools. It sounds like you'd be perfectly capable of teaching many aspects of jazz except perhaps improvisation, and that's something you still have time to work on.
If you really want to learn to improvise you can. Most jazz players I know started by playing along with records. Imitate the pros note for noter, phrase for phrase and nuance for nuance. Then apply that stuff to your own ideas. We all start out by fooling around in the privacy of our homes where no one will hear our mistakes. Buy some Jamie Aebersold play-alongs and start learning some jazz tunes. When you've learned a couple try jamming in your ensemble. I'll bet your friends will be very encouraging to you. And it'll be fun too!

Answer:
Saxysai, I want to second what Riff said. Get some jazz cds and play along with them. That way you can experiment and make mistakes out of the public eye, so to speak. It is definitely not too late for you to start this process!
I think one problem many classical players may have when starting to improvise is fear of making a mistake. Certainly in classical music if you play a wrong note, you have made a major blunder and everyone knows it. The same could be said for improvisation, but "wrong notes" take on a different meaning there. When improvising a wrong note is one that really doesn't sound good against the harmonic structure, but there is some subjectivity in that evaluation and you have a lot of "right notes" to choose from. Also, improvisors have to be willing to take risks and occasionally make mistakes. It goes with the territory. Someone once said that "a wrong note was played and jazz was born." That's a ridiculous exagerration, but it does have a small grain of truth in it.
My advice for what it's worth is to stop worrying about it and get on with realizing your dream. All the best to you.