Question:
A bunch bunch bunch of question
Hi everyone...
Well, I'm a 19 y.o. cellist who would like to start learning saxophone. I just LOVE the sound of this beautiful instrument, so expressive... The thing is that today was the first time I actually touched a real sax, and didn't even get to blow through it, I just looked at it and drooled like mad... So I have a bunch of questions (some of which I don't remember right now, so I'll vome back later :P)...
-I understand sax is a transposition isntrument... I don't exactly know what this means... So when I press all the keys (which should be a C), do I get another note? How is sax music written? using the note for the keys you press or the note that should sound?
-My first class will be in about a week, and my teacher asked me to try to decide which type of sax I'd like to play, and I'm a bit hesitant about this... I'd like to have that Oh-my-god-life-is-so-miserable-gonna-commit-suicide-tonight tyoe of sound; depressing and kinda romantic... That's exactly why I chose cello instead of violin... I was thinking the same applies to saxes so the one I should get is a tenor? A friend told me altos sound much better, what do you think?
-More or less how much time will it take me to play something at least slightly decently? I know the learning curves of all instruments are different, and I'm guessing sax's a little bit easier, but just an assumption...
-Any other recommendations?
-Oh, and another thing... Gonna go live in an apartment in December or January... will I have problems with my neighbours? will I have to go down to the parking lot in order to practice without getting kicked out of the place by everyone?
Thanks a lot :)
-Jon :twisted:

Answer:
Originally Posted by Cellon Hi everyone...
-I understand sax is a transposition isntrument... I don't exactly know what this means... So when I press all the keys (which should be a C), do I get another note? How is sax music written? using the note for the keys you press or the note that should sound?
The notes on the paper are for the keys you press. The note that comes out depends on the type of sax. For an alto for example a writen C will sound like an Eflat, and for a Tenor a written C will sound like a Bflat, but the fingering will be the same. If you want to play with an ensemble, and all the music is in Concert pitch, you will have to figure out how to transpose it if you want to play in tune. Usually though if its sax music it will already be transposed for you as it were.
-My first class will be in about a week, and my teacher asked me to try to decide which type of sax I'd like to play, and I'm a bit hesitant about this... I'd like to have that Oh-my-god-life-is-so-miserable-gonna-commit-suicide-tonight tyoe of sound; depressing and kinda romantic... That's exactly why I chose cello instead of violin... I was thinking the same applies to saxes so the one I should get is a tenor? A friend told me altos sound much better, what do you think? Tenor is the bluesy one, but see if you cant play a few different ones before deciding. I think the recieved wisdom is that alto is a bit easier to learn at first as the gap between the reed and the mouthpiece (the facing) is a bit smaller and easier to manage, as is the smaller reed, but if you like the Tenor sound dont let that put you off, learn on a tenor. Soprano is the "Kenny G" instrument if that helps, but there is a broad range of sounds available with any of the saxes, partly to do with mouthpiece / reed combinations and horn properties, but probably in large part to do with whats going on in the players head. Having said that changing mouthpieces can make a noticable difference to the type of sound from any given horn / player.
If its any consideration to you Altos are cheeper than the others to buy in the first place if you are just looking to learn something before deciding which direction to head off in.
-More or less how much time will it take me to play something at least slightly decently? I know the learning curves of all instruments are different, and I'm guessing sax's a little bit easier, but just an assumption...
I guess its easier second time around, you already know about keysigs, notation etc, so you just have to learn sax specific stuff like fingerings, embrouchoure, posture, Breathing. Hard to say how long, everyones different, and so is everyones idea of decent too! I would hope you could carry a simple tune within a month though.
-Any other recommendations? Have at least a few lessons first to master the basics, you dont want to get in bad habits early on. Try and master and remember scales, they bored me so I ignored them, but I regret not learning them earlier on as it would make improvising and transposing MUCH easier to master.
-Oh, and another thing... Gonna go live in an apartment in December or January... will I have problems with my neighbours? will I have to go down to the parking lot in order to practice without getting kicked out of the place by everyone?
Thanks a lot :)
-Jon :twisted:
Not sure what the answer is to that one....perhaps talk to them and agree a good time that wont be a problem for them...If you are practicing while they are trying to get small kids to sleep, or in the middle of the night, it could become a problem? Ive seen "mufflers" for sale...supposed to reduce your volume for practicing in these curcumstances. Dont know anyone who has tried them, so cant comment on if they are a good idea. Good Luck, and remember to have fun with it.

Answer:
Sounds to me like you're being steered towards either the tenor or soprano. I've heard soprano players that sound *exactly* the kind of sound you're thinking of, or at least I think you're imagining. On the flipside, you'll get more more work on tenor, however the novelty of a soprano yields some interest and potential for blowing people away. I'm an alto player myself, but have been considering soprano for quite some time now.
If you can find the Symbols of Light album, by Greg Osby, I'd highly recommend it. It would be especially neat for you, since you're a cellist, as it's a modern jazz album combining a jazz combo with a string section; I know for certain that at least one violinist and the violist are teachers at Juilliard, it's certainly a high-class album. Osby plays soprano and alto on this, having a compelling, beautiful, and paradoxial tone on each... don't ask about my word choice, it's based purely on impressions. VERY highly recommended album for a string player interested in saxophone.
As for instrument-related stuff, the range of the saxophone is same regardless of how it's pitched... i.e. the lowest note on a soprano, alto, and a tenor is Bb. Fingerings are all the same for the range of the horn, regardless of the pitch.. C#maj is played the same on alto as it is tenor. If you know much about various orchestral instruments, the saxophone has the same range as an oboe... many sax players study out of oboe books for etudes, exercises etc.
Soprano is possibly the hardest of the 4 most popular saxophone ranges (SATB) to master, because it is the most finnicky in regards to intonation, embouchure control, and the keywork is closer together. But, if you've got a passion for the horn and the sound, the payoff is significant, and you'll be happier deep down. Give it a thought, that's just my $.02 on what you should give a try.

Answer:
Parts of that last post are possibly confusing to those not used to the system....

"... the range of the saxophone is same regardless of how it's pitched... i.e. the lowest note on a soprano, alto, and a tenor is Bb. Fingerings are all the same for the range of the horn, regardless of the pitch.. C#maj is played the same on alto as it is tenor. ..."

In sheet music labelled "saxophone", the lowest note you may encounter for sop, alto, or tenor sax is a written Bb (below what we call 'middle C' on the piano - your third C on the cello). Then there is a 1-1 correspondence for ALL saxophones, between each written note (written for saxophone) and the fingers that the player puts down for that note, no matter which size of
instrument is being played.

What is DIFFERENT is the note that different sizes of sax actually SOUND.

When the player reads the C below the treble clef, he puts all fingers down except left pinky (i.e. not quite the lowest note)....

The soprano sax SOUNDS a tone lower, Bb.
(The Bb below middle C on the piano)
The alto sax SOUNDS the Eb below that.
(ie 1st Eb below middle C on the piano)
The tenor SOUNDS an octave below the soprano
(2nd Bb below middle C on the piano)
The baritone SOUNDS an octave below the alto.
(2nd Eb below middle C on the piano - almost the lowest note on the cello)

Most saxes play another two notes lower than what they READ as C, i.e. the player READS music down to Bb (below the ledger line C under the treble stave)

However many baritone saxes have one more note lower still. That takes them nicely to the bottom of the cello range. The player is reading A (below the treble stave), which is sounding C, two octaves below middle C on the piano.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Cellon -My first class will be in about a week, and my teacher asked me to try to decide which type of sax I'd like to play, and I'm a bit hesitant about this... I'd like to have that Oh-my-god-life-is-so-miserable-gonna-commit-suicide-tonight tyoe of sound; depressing and kinda romantic... That's exactly why I chose cello instead of violin... I was thinking the same applies to saxes so the one I should get is a tenor? A friend told me altos sound much better, what do you think?
If you ask me you can most likely get the "Oh-my-god-life-is-so-miserable-gonna-commit-suicide-tonight" better on alto. Though from experience and from my teacher's experience the smaller the sax, the harder. Therefore the alto and soprano will be harder to control rather then the bari and tenor.
I would reccomend the alto, though tenor would be good aswell.
Here's a tip: take care of your reeds! My first few months I broke like 10 reeds.
Good luck!

Answer:
Originally Posted by Cellon
-My first class will be in about a week, and my teacher asked me to try to decide which type of sax I'd like to play, and I'm a bit hesitant about this... I'd like to have that Oh-my-god-life-is-so-miserable-gonna-commit-suicide-tonight tyoe of sound; depressing and kinda romantic... That's exactly why I chose cello instead of violin... I was thinking the same applies to saxes so the one I should get is a tenor? A friend told me altos sound much better, what do you think?
-More or less how much time will it take me to play something at least slightly decently? I know the learning curves of all instruments are different, and I'm guessing sax's a little bit easier, but just an assumption...
-Any other recommendations?
-Oh, and another thing... Gonna go live in an apartment in December or January... will I have problems with my neighbours? will I have to go down to the parking lot in order to practice without getting kicked out of the place by everyone?
-Jon :twisted:
First question sound like a tenor to me for that deep, dark, romantic sound. My advice would be to listen to a few saxophone players and see which sound matches closely to what you want to play. Then figure out which sax they play.
How soon you will be able to play something really depends upon you and your drive. It could be as soon as a couple of months up to maybe 6 months, up to a year. Depends how much you practice and how well you advance.
When I lived in my apartment I played only during the daytime and didn't get any complaints. IT is possible to play soft, but that will take a little time. A few tricks you can try is to play into your closet that's full of clothes. That will deaden some of the sound.
And the best advice one could possibly give is to keep coming back here to search for problems you may have and also ask questions. Everyone here is usually pretty friendly and the knowledge on this board is invaluable.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Cellon ... I'd like to have that Oh-my-god-life-is-so-miserable-gonna-commit-suicide-tonight tyoe of sound; depressing and kinda romantic... That's exactly why I chose cello instead of violin... I was thinking the same applies to saxes so the one I should get is a tenor? A friend told me altos sound much better, what do you think?
-Jon :twisted:
Just for the sake of argument I'll tackle this one. Your friend's opinion is just that, an opinion. I couldn't disagree more, but then that's my opinion. To me the tenor has it all over the alto in tone and expressivness. I'd second the idea of another poster that you listen to some players on the various horns and see which one resonates with you. Having said that, the tenor is much closer than the alto to a cello. I actually think of a tenor tone as "cello-like" and that's one of the things I like about it. Since you're a cellist, that might be a factor.

Answer:
I play alto now, played tenor through high school and college. My son plays Cello, and is just starting on the alto sax. He is too small for a tenor, but that is what he wants to play. I agree completely with the post from JL. If you like the range and sound of the Cello, you will like the range and sound of the Tenor for the exact same reasons. I disagree that the alto is easier to play than the tenor. I started on the tenor. It does take more wind, but the trade off is that it uses a more relaxed embrochure. If you start out with a good classical mouthpiece, you should do fine. I highly recomend listening to music of the different saxes and picking based on the sound and music you want to produce. At this point, the artist doesn't matter, you just want to here as much as possible the differences between them, and what the potential is with each one. If you are like many of us here, we end up liking them all so much, we play more than one. Good luck!

Answer:
Listening to Tenors is what got me hooked on Sax. Now I think I like Alto better. Alto seems to "sing" while Tenor has a more "mechanical" tone. I would really hate to decide which one to play if I could only play one.
Listen to a lot of good players and listen to yourself before you decide.
Will get in trouble for this but... based on what you said, listen to:
Johnny Hodges Alto Satin Doll
Lou Donaldson Alto I Don't Know Why
Charlie Parker Alto My Little Suede Shoes
Ben Webster Tenor Blues For Yolande, Shine On Harvest Moon
Stan Getz Tenor Moonlight In Vermont
Coleman Hawkins Tenor La Rosita
Warren Hill Tenor Frosty The Snowman, Jingle Bells
John Coletrane Tenor (His Ballads CD)
All based on that type of tone you want.

Answer:
Why hasn't anyone mentioned bari? It could mimmic a cello but yet could be noisy and raspy sounding as you want it to be. Nothing wakes up the neigbors like someone practicing bari in the morning. But it could also put a baby to sleep. On the contrary, it is probably harder to learn than alto or tenor.

Answer:
Grenade! Grenade! Opinion time!
I think the points people made about tenor being more expressive are misdirected. They exist because, in general, tenor attracts players who want to play "expressively", since that's what the majority of existing tenor players do on it. Of course there are plenty of fast players as well; however, a relatively inferior player can sound alright on tenor with a half decent sound just because of its timbre, learning a few inflection tricks and hitting the streets. The husky timbre of the tenor draws people in with its allure, and there are plenty of "acceptable" tones to have on tenor, about 10x as many as on alto, I'd estimate.
On the flipside, the alto attracts people who are more interested in technical playing, and less propone to expressive excellence. This is because there aren't enough people doing the expressive thing on alto. An unskilled player gets ahold of an alto, tries the stereotype expressive playing thing, and gets unhappy with their tone, blaming their dissatisfaction on the timbre of the horn, then yielding the results of example A above. The people that make it on alto are those who can hack the technical aspects, later getting into complicated playing and forgetting about expression. Either that or their tone sucks and they don't like what they hear when they try the stereotype expressive playing thing. I'm not saying alto cats aren't concerned with their tone, just that they *sound* like they're not, ya know what I mean?
However, if someone goes to the alto and works on their sound, shaping it into something they like, then the crative expressive playing just comes out. They start trying out various breath inflections, ghostings, subtones, overtones, and lots of other nuances that don't have names yet, and then get really expressive. You can HEAR this kind of expression - it stands out of the crowd, not turning into one of countless "expressive" tenor players out there who hug the low notes and use a little vibrato. A lot of 'em, you can hear it... they're lying. Too many tenor players get complacent and don't try this sorta thing. The alto world needs someone like Johnny Hodges to come around.
Now the soprano... that's relatively unclaimed territory. I'd like to hear someone come around on soprano and gain fame for expressive playing. Multiply everything I just said about the alto in relation to the tenor times at least 3.