Question:
jazz programs at colleges in the US
hey there, my teacher wants me to start looking at colleges (even though I'm only going to be a sophmore in HS) , and he mentioned Berklee, U of wisconsin eau-claire, and UNT. a few others i've thought about were Indiana University, Loyola University (not sure if that's it, the one in N'orleans.) Julliard, and Eastman. these are the ones i've heard about, not looking at. anyone have any other good schools for jazz?

Answer:
I'm going to hopefully be attending Berklee College of Music in Boston in a couple of years after taking some transferable courses here in town. I visited Berklee during their real school day (a friend of mine let me sit in on a couple of his classes) and I loved the atmosphere. Music everywhere, people everywhere. Berklee is not known for their big band stuff, however they have an abundance of small ensembles. If you love combo playing, Berklee is the spot. AND it's in Boston, which is a great spot to play jazz. It's also close to NY, which is one of the top spots in the U.S. for jazz.
50% of Berklee's students, according to their website, are transfer students. If you ever consider going there (it is very expensive), transfer there so you don't have to take your liberal arts classes there. It's more expensive and it's a waste of your time. If you want to go to a music school, your studies should be focused on music.
UNT jazz, in contrast to Berklee, is known for their big band playing. I've heard it is very competitive, even more so for saxophonists. A friend of mine (trumpet player) almost decided to go there but changed his mind after being accepted into the UW (our state university).
When I visited Julliard, I didn't like it. It's a conservatory. The atmosphere was a complete opposite of Berklee. I went on a tour of it and wasn't convinced. However, some of the faculty members are internationally known, like Wynton Marsalis, Wycliffe Gordon, among other members of the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. In my opinion, Julliard is more of a dance school than music, especially jazz. The jazz program there is fairly new, and is extremely hard to get in to (the cream of the crop get accepted).
My private teacher went to New England Conservatory a long time ago, but also attended Berklee for the playing experience. You don't get to PLAY much at conservatories.
To really know if you like any college, you have to visit it yourself and see how you like it. What may be interesting for one person might not be interesting for another. I was fortunate enough to have a friend that gave me a tour during the school day of the school. Whatever you do, never go by the brochures or even the website.

Answer:
University of the Arts in Philadelphia. It's an awesome environment and I feel that I'm getting a LOT out of it. This is a small school where most of the faculty are working professional players, so that might not be for everyone, but to me it is indispensible. Right now I am working for the UArts summer jazz institute and have gotten some teaching experience as well as experience in administrative work in music. My teacher has hooked me up with some VERY cool gigs and I have many lined up for the future. It's a great program and I highly recommend that you check it out if you're willing to travel to an area booming with the music business (Philly, NYC). This place is really about community, developing professionals, and pursuing greater heights in all forms of music. I play in a big band, a sax quartet, several jazz quartets, and have done two musicals in the area. There is a lot of opportunity here and the faculty are wonderful- there is also a lot of scholarship and grant money available if you show potential and if you need the money.

Answer:
Hahahahaha. That's a loaded question. I started looking at musical schools last year when I was a sophomore, and there are way too many to choose from. Right now, I'm considering New School, William Paterson University, Indiana University, and New York University. You may also want to look at Western Michigan University and Hope College. They both have good jazz programs, but they're too close to home for me. I don't want to go to Berklee or any "music school" because they are too deficient academically, and I want to try doing a double major in music (jazz studies, saxophone performance, not sure yet) and something a bit more... safe.
I still haven't actually visited any schools (most of them are too far away), but I think the only way to find out a good school for you is to actually visit and talk to the professors and see what it's actually like. Don't decide to go to a school just because someone else says it's good. You might also want to make a chart to compare schools. There's a very good page on the MENC website with information about how to pick a music school that someone posted here I think. I can't remember the address right now.
Edit: Razzy, I didn't know you go to U of Arts, that's another school I've considered. How are they academically? I know Berklee's academics are... pathetic, hence my decision against Berklee.
Edit 2: I should also mention that I would prefer to go to a school that will also have some legit saxophone element, which is something you should consider. Do you want to be in an environment that is ALL jazz ALL the time? Or would you also like to play legit?

Answer:
Originally Posted by BlueNote My private teacher went to New England Conservatory a long time ago, but also attended Berklee for the playing experience. You don't get to PLAY much at conservatories. On the surface, that's one of the most bizarre statements I've ever heard. Every person I've ever known who went to a conservatory would tell you that almost all they did there was play. Unless I misunderstand your meaning. Would you care to elaborate?

Answer:
Originally Posted by BlueNote UNT jazz, in contrast to Berklee, is known for their big band playing. I've heard it is very competitive, even more so for saxophonists. A friend of mine (trumpet player) almost decided to go there but changed his mind after being accepted into the UW (our state university).
This *was* true. However Stefan Karlsson has now taken over the combo side of things at UNT and he's doing a FANTASTIC job. They have a few combos that play regularly at school functions, and some fantastic things are coming out of there.
I also looked into Julliard (for composition), their jazz program is new, and it's MUCH more centered around classical music and dance.
You might also check out Michigan and Michigan State. MSU has a very fine music program, a fine gem that its often overlooked.
I agree with most of what's been said though. Take a 'college vist tour' during your spring break sometime, email profs at the different colleges that you want to check out and visit. I wouldn't suggest going during summer or over thier spring break if you can help it. Most colleges will let you sit in on a class or two so that you can see what it's like.
Best,
Chris S

Answer:
One thing you shouldnt overlook is the immediate area of the college and the local music scene. If you plan on gigging make sure you school has local clubs to play. Sometimes a school with the "best program" isn't always so great. William Patterson for example has very little musically going on that side of the river, students there will be hard pressed to get any "real world application" of their education.

Answer:
Jabcool, based on your comments I would not recommend UArts for you. There are no non-art degrees... it's not really about the degree unless you go for the 5th year master of arts in education.
I think this school is most conducive to those who want to make a career out of music. The academic requirement courses are strong, but there are no degrees outside of visual arts, performing arts, and media/design.

Answer:
A lot of good advice in the previous posts. Sorry to be a bit of a spoiler but:
In my opinion, Julliard is more of a dance school than music. Julliard is and has been one of the best music schools in the world.
You don't get to PLAY much at conservatories. What, pray tell, does one do, then?

Answer:
I honestly would hate going to a school that had a select few of the top young players in the world as opposed to one that has a ton of people around all the time, cream of the crop or not.
Yes, Julliard is considered to be the best music school in the world, but it's not always everyone's first choice. Just because they have the reputation of being the best of the best doesn't mean it will be a fulfilling experience for everyone. If I had my college tuition and housing all paid for I still wouldn't go there. It's not my kind of atmosphere.

Answer:
How do you know unless you try it out?
And if you find that you are at the cream of the crop, I think it's almost necessary that you are surrounded by players who are on your level or better than you. This can be done in either situation, but below a certain level it proves difficult.
The only reason I'm not considering Juilliard (for grad school) is how new their jazz program is... not too hip to the faculty either, anybody know who the sax teacher(s) are? I'm very familiar with Manhattan's faculty, and I think that would be a good place to go... probably somewhere between the two situations you point out, Bluenote.

Answer:
DO IT, play to add to what you teach!
SO MANY TEACHERS TODAY...but with only pedagogical
skills...not hands on world/bandstand experience!!
NOW, not trying to get in anyones face but....
I came into teaching only after being on the road after Berklee in 73.
And playing/experiencing the music. It wasn't easy and it NEVER will be.
I strongly urge some of you younger cats to get your feet wet in playing more. Take some chances...get OUT there and create an energy.
The music is drying up fast. The great cats are passing and a lot
of players who teach have become pretty academic.
Jazz education should be the communication of knowledge and skills. Besides there should be the implication that the student will eventually use this information to be engaged in work of some personal use. HOPEFULLY- On the bandstand !!!
This is an ART FORM, with the acquisition that your knowledge is a lifetime pursuit within that.Don't forget process precedes content in importance for education. I don't see enough guys trying to study with Odean Pope in Philly.
Or ask him questions. Or checking out guys like Bert Wilson or studying heavy duty jazz piano AS WELL as saxophone. Ditto flute.
TO MUCH - one dimensional leaning and rote repition of it.

Where's the experience???

Where's the skill developed by doing????

I'm not saying there is no place for raw information, only that there should be a balance between retention and how it is processed. Ya know?
While your in school...are you TRYING to play sessions?
Are you looking to the past masters like Ike Quebeck or Don Wilkerson and Lockjaw? Or are you only listening to the " click" names your peers are????
When I was a student at Berklee cats would get on your case about not knowing who LUCKY THOMPSON was or needing a lead sheet for a standard.
Today- I dunno.....
I have the utmost respect for students as human beings, they are as of yet relatively inexperienced in this art form. But please...TAKE SOME CHANCES DUDES.

Go past what the pedagogical dots and dashes tell ya please.
I COULD GO ON...BUT THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH NOW TO THINK ON.

Answer:
Hey Price looks like you killed this thread! I'll take a run at you from the young players point of view!
"SO MANY TEACHERS TODAY ... but with only pedagogical
skills ... not hands on world/bandstand experience-!!"
I see no problem with this, I would argue that the top 20% or so of music graduates today have a technical facility with the horn that was rare in 73. I believe this is directly related to training and pedagogical skills that are taught in High schools and Colleges today.
I attended a seminar Bergonzi gave where he said he is constantly floored by the level of playing that students are showing up at auditions with, or he will have a student ask for help on something they are struggling with and he is surprised that what the student is playing is even possible.
Not saying all current young players are musical or have insight into Jazz but neither were all the young graduates of the 70's or any decade. Just saying we can churn the horn better!
As for studying players like Ike Quebec I don't know how many times I have had older players grin and comment " You have to be able to play fast before you can play slow" as I flew through a piece jamming as many notes as possible into it. Three years ago I thought this was bull, now I find I am slowing down a little and phrasing is more important. Yes at times less can be more. Problem is I believe it really is easier to master playing fast and then play slow then turning it around. If you don't go gonzo when young then when?
I don't know anyone who would be willing to drop the bucks for College and not be playing in Big Bands, combos and sax quartets! Most of the students I run into only get to College by going through the grind of High school and Community Big Bands, playing combo', attending camps and getting their butts whipped at local jams. The lucky ones got paying gigs for their own combos. While in College we / I will play anywhere anytime for experience, exposure and or a little bit of cash. Man I'll play for dinner and a beer! Make that just a beer!!
I agree about having the standards down pat!
Also agree with your comments about getting some life experience... don't understand the rush to get a Masters, take a few years to let what you have learned solidify before taking on more. Get the basic training and use it to become yourself as a player. That takes time! Thing is when you are 20 it doesn't seem like we have much time!

Answer:
Originally Posted by Tim Price SO MANY TEACHERS TODAY...but with only pedagogical
skills...not hands on world/bandstand experience!!
NOW, not trying to get in anyones face but....
I came into teaching only after being on the road after Berklee in 73.
And playing/experiencing the music. It wasn't easy and it NEVER will be.
I strongly urge some of you younger cats to get your feet wet in playing more. Take some chances...get OUT there and create an energy.
The music is drying up fast. The great cats are passing and a lot
of players who teach have become pretty academic.
Jazz education should be the communication of knowledge and skills. Besides there should be the implication that the student will eventually use this information to be engaged in work of some personal use. HOPEFULLY- On the bandstand !!!
This is an ART FORM, with the acquisition that your knowledge is a lifetime pursuit within that.Don't forget process precedes content in importance for education. I don't see enough guys trying to study with Odean Pope in Philly.
Or ask him questions. Or checking out guys like Bert Wilson or studying heavy duty jazz piano AS WELL as saxophone. Ditto flute.
TO MUCH - one dimensional leaning and rote repition of it.

Where's the experience???

Where's the skill developed by doing????

I'm not saying there is no place for raw information, only that there should be a balance between retention and how it is processed. Ya know?
While your in school...are you TRYING to play sessions?
Are you looking to the past masters like Ike Quebeck or Don Wilkerson and Lockjaw? Or are you only listening to the " click" names your peers are????
When I was a student at Berklee cats would get on your case about not knowing who LUCKY THOMPSON was or needing a lead sheet for a standard.
Today- I dunno.....
I have the utmost respect for students as human beings, they are as of yet relatively inexperienced in this art form. But please...TAKE SOME CHANCES DUDES.

Go past what the pedagogical dots and dashes tell ya please.
I COULD GO ON...BUT THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH NOW TO THINK ON.
This is exactly why I want to go to school in NY where I can go out and listen to LIVE jazz a lot, as well as gig! It's great to go to Oberlin or whatever with a great conservatory, but you're in the middle of Ohio, where are you going to be able to play outside of school?

Answer:
The great drummer Jeff Ballard is rumored to have said that the best way to go is to take all that money you were going to spend on college and go live in New York instead; practice, go to sessions, meet and play with as many people as you can. Instead, I went to North Texas!!!
Where, to be sure, I've learned more than I ever thought I would about the mysterious wizard's discipline that is jazz. The tuition's extremely cheap for the quality of faculty, and the proximity to Dallas supplies ample gigging opportunity (New York would obviously be preferable, but you'd probably struggle more for the work... Dallas has rich people who will spend their money to hire musicians, too). And the competition within the school is indeed VERY fierce, but not cutthroat; we all support each other and practice together, share our secret licks and the recordings we stole them from.
Too bad I'm a rabid leftist... Texas is about as red as a state can get.

Answer:
Playing/and developing the energy for the music
Originally Posted by jabcool52 This is exactly why I want to go to school in NY where I can go out and listen to LIVE jazz a lot, as well as gig! It's great to go to Oberlin or whatever with a great conservatory, but you're in the middle of Ohio, where are you going to be able to play outside of school?
Yes- but guys *everywhere* need to bond together musically, form a creative society to play/listen AND PERFORM in.
Not just NyC, or LA... ETC- BUT......Anywhere. It can be done.I try to get my college students to play _within_each others projects as much as possible. There are young people everywhere who NEED experience and bandstand/ensemble time. And ya can't get it with " play alongs".
MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN. Get together, form jam bands.
PLAY, play, play.
It can happen. If you want to grow...IT MUST :!: