Question:
Frustrated
I just feel the need to vent. Im new to this still...about 2 1/4 years. I know I certainly havent paid my dues but I just feeling impatient lately with a lack of progress or simply slow progress. Being a weekend warrior is a difficult status to maintain. Family, work...more work, limited playing time. Its all getting to me lately. The world just doesnt have its priorities straight! People in charge need to play sax so something can be done about this conspiracy!
Just for the record, the 40 hour week blows worse than a Chineese Mark VI copy with soggy pads.

Answer:
Though I'm in nowhere near your situation, I still feel like a beginner... I've been playing for about 9 years but I've only been studying the instrument and really trying to get better for 3, 1 of which was in music college this past year... I definitely identify with feeling like no progress is happening. Tonight, for example, I sat down with my alto trying to get a nice sound, to no avail. Granted, past few weeks I've been hitting HARD the flute, clarinet, and alto, straight in a line, about 5 hours a day. So today I take a little break and start playing alto at 9pm, and sound like a duck. Took me an hour to get a sound that I was semi-happy with. This is more proof that dissatisfaction happens on every level!
Also, I always feel like I'm "behind" other people my age trying to reach a professional level.
And half the time I hit the practice room and my mind starts to uncontrollably wander after about an hour's worth of shedding. It's like clockwork, one hour, then I can't focus anymore. What's up with that?

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I know what you both mean, i start work at 7:30 finish at 5 and have 45 minutes traveling time both ways. i have been playing about 6 months and need all the practice i can get.
we all get very frustated at times i am sure.
but i do it for those o so rare great days when it all comes together i have the tone i get the notes right and my timing is spot on (hang on a minute ! i haven't had one of those days yet ) :? o well keep trying i suppose 8-)

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Geez Sig
And I was ready to come to you for some therapy :shock: .
I certainly feel your pain. I just returned to playing a year and a half ago after a 22 year layoff. I've been exposed to more great music and sax players in that time than in the rest of my life, thanks to the folks here (and the internet in general). While this has many benefits, one major downside is the increased frustration factor. I want to be able to at least play what I hear in my head.
To make that issue worse, we just had our first baby 7 weeks ago. My practice time has gone from 1.5-2 hours a day down to 1-1.5 hours every 3 or 4 days. Nowhere near enough to even maintain my embouchure, let alone improve my overall playing. I also haven't had time to take a private lesson in months due to work commitments, getting a nursery ready, and fixing up a bedroom near the nursery.
Why am I in need of therapy? I play alto in a 'Jazz Band Master Class (JBMC)' - a septet organized by my sax teacher. Our tenor couldn't make it to our last practice and had a sub sit in for him. The sub was another alto player- and a member of this forum. I had met this fellow at a local gathering of SOTW members - where I was able to turn a couple of players on to the JBMC concept - including him.
He is a super nice guy who is far more experienced (and talented) than I and he plays a 5 digit Mark VI. Not just any Mark VI, but one of the nicest of the 5 or 6 I was able play at the SOTW gathering. He produces one of the absolute sweetest sounds on that alto that I have ever heard on the saxophone (including pro recordings). His sound is what I would have thought of as my target sound, the way an alto should be played (in my head). I was simply in awe. After the practice everyone was complimenting him on how great he sounded, etc., etc. - myself included. But I gotta admit, part of me was filled with the green monster known as envy, and a larger portion was just simply depressed.
I had already been feeling down because my tone and technique have been in a backslide. Then I am forced to confront the fact that, at my current rate of non-improvement, I will never be able to reach my target sound. Forced to realize that even if I were to get back to my old practice routine it would be difficult for me to reach that level in a couple of decades. I guess, forced to realize that I will be lucky to become mediocre (at best) in doing one of the things that I really enjoy in life. You're right that Originally Posted by Sigmund451 Just for the record, the 40 hour week blows worse than a Chineese Mark VI copy with soggy pads. But I think back to a time when I was out of work, and how depressing that was. I think you've been there too.
So, my only solution is to win the lottery so my wife and I can stay at home to raise our children, and I can practice as much as I want, and we can own a Jazz club, and a recording studio, and a sax shop and.....
Someone stop me from these delusions :dazed:
Thanks for starting this thread, so I could join the rant. I guess admitting I have a problem is the first step. How much for the therapy?

Answer:
Originally Posted by Sigmund451 Just for the record, the 40 hour week blows worse than a Chineese Mark VI copy with soggy pads. You only have to work 40 hours a week? Luxury!!!
<edited due to guilt>

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Super 20 makes a good point, but I still agree with sig; the 40-hour week does suck, in spite of the fact that things can always be worse. I was lucky enough to only have to do the 40 hour thing for a few years. Most of my life I've managed to work it out so I either work for myself on my own hours (and yes, I know some who are self-employed work many more hours than 40, but not me) or get a job with flexible hours. I've given up a lot to do this, but in return I can play music, practice my horn, and also do some things that I couldn't do if saddled with a steady job and big family. Pros and cons any way you go, however.
Back on topic, I've learned that patience is paramount when learning anything, especially music. Razzy, just from reading your posts, I know you're way ahead of where I was at your age, and you're probably well ahead of your peers. Don't worry about it, just keep playing and enjoy. For those with less time, I've been told that even 15 minutes a day of dedicated practice can bring real progress.

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This frustration is something we all go through. In your first few years of playing you make ridiculous progress...from 0 to 80. Then it may take 15 years to get from 0 - 90. and then 30 years to get to 95. etc.
The sad thing is that for most of us, even if we got to 99, we'd still be at a 15 in comparison to someone like Bird at his prime.
Just don't get to the point where you're so frustrated that you're not enjoying it anymore. Practice time should be the highlight of your day! It doesn't matter if you work 40 hour weeks, or 80 hour weeks - use practicing to unwind from a long day at work & HAVE FUN WITH IT!

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I like to think about my teacher's story... when he was my age, he had been married for two years, had one child and another on the way, worked full time, and was going to school full time. He still managed to practice for 3 hours a day, and a bit more on weekends, getting in the flute and clarinet too.
If that isn't inspiring then I don't know what is!

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What would be even worse, IMHO, would be if I had to rely on my playing to put food on the table. Now THAT would have the potential to take the fun out of playing.
I realize that there are few sax players these days who make a living strictly from their playing, but my instructor tells me stories of how he started out with his only income coming from playing in clubs. He says that he envies me for being able to play strictly for the fun of it. Of course he doesn't envy my day job though, the grass is always greener and all that.

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I've found that I improve for a bit, then go stale, then decline. At that point, I get ready to throw it all in, but, just before doing so, I make a great step forward ... and then repeat the cycle again ... and again ... and..

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Siggy - it can not only be frustrating, it can be downright depressing. But I'm sure you know from life, and I know from many years in music, that things cycle. Patience and trust.

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I've started bringing my mouthpiece to work and playing long tones and scales on it in the basement on my lunchbreak. It's a very good excercise for building your embouchure and control over intonation and tone.
I only work 3 days a week, but work 12 hours those 3 days. So, If I don't do that, I end up having to spend half my weekend building back up to where I left off.

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You know, I work a 52 hour week (that's 7 days a week - full time weekdays and part time weekends) and I can certainly understand the frustration that sometimes slips in: about having not enough time to practice, then sounding like a duck when I do find the time.
Now to risk sounding like a shrink: I think how I overcame that is to start with the end in mind. What I mean is this: I now play a 'cheapo' Chinese Lark Tenor which I am now stuck to for financial reasons. In my mind, I always want to upgrade to that professional horn. But I know that for the time being the pro horn would be wasted on my lips (I won't do it justice). So I approach every training with a mini goal like for example, working on the growl, vibrato and settles with that for a week or two until I get the hang of it. But I keep reminding myself that all that little goals will lead me to the big goal, my pro tenor sax :D
This morning I was reading the "Top Tones" book (before coming to office) and one thing really blew me away. And that is the power of the human mind. So, learn to tame it and channel it's energies and we can make the best out of each practice.
OK. Time to get back to work.
Cheers!

Answer:
Originally Posted by Razzy And half the time I hit the practice room and my mind starts to uncontrollably wander after about an hour's worth of shedding. It's like clockwork, one hour, then I can't focus anymore. What's up with that?
I've been a teacher for most of my life. % - 11 year old. All the research I have ever seen shows that most people, children or adults have an EFFECTIVE attention span of about 20 minutes. If after that that time you have learned 3 or 4 new things solidly you are about 100% ahead of the game. You can be in a lecture or lesson for two hours but the effectiveness of your learning is way down after those first 20 minutes. You can work a 12 hour day but in reality how effective are you over the whole of that period.
So apply that to your practice session and focus on maybe two things for 20 minutes. really focus. Then go and do something else.
I shall now go and noodle about on my sax for an hour and half doing no really effective practice.
I do so wish I could take my own advice

Answer:
I can certainly relate to Sigmund451's frustration. I started sax about 2 years ago at the age of 52. I work a 40+ hour/week job as a pharmaceutical research biochemist. I am however single...this helps tremedously with the "finding time to play" problem. I have however, come to realize that just like any other change you incorporate into your life which is essentially a new boundary, there WILL be people in your life that are HEAVILY VESTED in keeping you stuck in your "old" behavior, which is THEIR comfort zone. People hate change and will rail against it and sabotage your efforts to do so because THEY don't want to have to step outside of their comfort zones and deal with a new you. I had to stand firm and say NO to quite a few realtives and so-called friends attempting to place demands on my time(usually employing the "guilt trip" method). My sax passion is my primary passion and priority. If they're not part of the solution and supportive of you, then they're part of the problem and will sabotage your best efforts to change and grow and be happy. I miss those folks....but I have plenty of time to practice and play with now just a handful of wonderful friends and family that encourage me and inspire me to play. The toxic people are still chasing their tails!

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<deleted because I sounded like an idiot>

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Greyduster, you bring up an interesting point. I don't normally do any ONE thing for longer than 20 minutes. And by "thing" I mean a conceptual unit of my practicing: long tones the range of the instrument, overtones, fundamentals, major scales, minor scales, etc. I usually do some arrangement of those 5 things in my first hour of playing and THEN my mind starts to wander. I find no variation in my focus on any particular one of those units if I change the order in which I do them. Therefore I find that for me the most effective way is to do fundamentals, overtones, long tones, major/minor scales mixed up, done in varying rhythms etc.
Could it be the great variation in my 20-minute units of practicing (i.e. playing my scales in 6's some days, in 5-tuplets other days, most days in 16th notes but with constantly changing articulations) which allows me to focus intently for at least an hour?
It's getting better. The more I establish a routine, the longer I can go while focusing on something. When you're attacking your weaknesses, it's a lot easier to stay focused. I find that my mind wanders when I'm "going through the motions" and thus strengthening my strengths. But when I'm attacking the weak parts of my playing, I can go for a much longer period of time (a little over an hour), probably because I'm much more goal oriented and the immediate goal is very easy to imagine and to move toward. Thoughts?

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I think that the length of your attention span will vary according to how clear your goals are and overcoming mental blocks. [Twenty minutes is mighty short for an adult human being that knows what he wants and knows how to go about getting it, IMHO. Maybe some sort of mental exercise for endurance is called for.] Anyhow, if you loose focus after twenty minutes, one of your goals is not clearly defined, IMO. I'm not sure that this is avoidable. I know that often much of my practicing is "doodling," trying to find my way and learning to overcome mental blocks.
Slow down and think about exactly what you're trying to do and how to do it. My optimum practicing time is one and 1/2 hours, then I take a break, do some chores, etc. for a couple of hours. And, about 1/2 hour before I start again, I plan and think about the last practice session and exactly(as exact as possible) what to do to continue. Plan what you want to work on/out before you pick up the horn.

Answer:
I remembered attending a question-and-answer session for music students with Burt Turetzky, a fine San Diego jazz & classical bass player in 1973. (I played jazz piano back then).
An axious student asked him, "How do I know if I'm practicing the right stuff?"
Burt asked back, "What are you doing?"
The student said, "an hour of scales, an hour of sight reading, an hour working on a tune, [etc., etc.]." (The student was serious.)
Burt asked, "Are you learning?"
The student said, "Yeah."
Then Burt said, "Then you're practicing the right stuff because you have to know everything, so as long as you're learning, you're learning the right stuff." It stayed with me all these years.
I've been playing sax 5 months now, and going at it pretty hard. The teacher uses the Rubank books--fine at first, but somewhere in "Advanced Method Volume 1" it turned into work--not play. A couple of weeks ago, I told my teacher I couldn't take any more Rubank for now. I told him if I learned Bird solos from the Omnibook or stole Sidney Bechet tunes off a CD, or worked with a Jamie Aebersold karaoke-style book, I'd learn faster because it would be fun, and "I'd still be learning the 'right stuff' because 'you have to know everything'."
The teacher said OK. We're doin' it. Yes, I still run into frustration when I can't play a lick fast enough no matter how much I practice it, or it just doesn't want to get clean, or when anything beyond high E flat doesn't want to play (yes, it's a soprano). But I'm having a lot more fun now and I'm still learning AND I AM LEARNING FASTER.
At 58, I'll never be John Coltrane. (OK. At 18 I never could have been Trane either.) I think we have to get these images of perfection out of our expectations. Before record players, the best music anyone ever got to hear (or therefore felt they had to compete with) consisted of the better players in their town. Anybody in your town play like Coltrane? So if only one guy in billions of people could play like that, I think we've got to cut ourselves some slack or playing will always be a disappointment. (I'm writing this mostly for myself--I probably need to read it more than anyone else.)
jivemutha

Answer:
I think it's important to remember that, if your attention span lasts 20 minutes, your short-term memory probably lasts 10. Or in my case 5. But the point I'm making is that we're often completely ignorant as to how we've improved - it's rather like being a child again and not "feeling" yourself grow. Musical growth is just as inevitable...if you're playing, listening, living, it'll come. Listen to old recordings of yourself periodically if you need to boost your confidence. Or listen to recordings of someone who really sucks; I find that a feeling of empathy-but-God-I'm-glad-I'm-not-him can be very encouraging.
And then keep in mind that Bird and Trane are artists' artists. You don't need to sound like them. In fact, you probably shouldn't. What matters is the authenticity of what you're "speaking," and if you can feel the music then those listening can, too. As musicians it's hard to fathom this, but most people's concern for skill goes only so far as "how high can you play?" As long as they like what you're playing, you can call yourself whoever the hell you want as far as they're concerned.
Oh, and look on the bright side. Jazz's legacy is alive irregardless of us, other cats already did the hard work. We're just doing something we enjoy doing:-)