Question:
Chromacticism-HELP!
I am in the process of learning how to improvise using chromacticism. I was listening to a friend for the first time play the alto sax and he was doing just want I have been trying to do for the past few years...he listen to a blues cd I played on my stereo and started to run up and down playing, as he put it, chord chromacticism. He tried to explain that he would start on any note and go up a half step of that particular chord (ex: C7) and just run up and down, change the tempo, the rythm etc. I hope I'm making sense. He would play three notes then maybe four and then start running all over the place, but it was spectacular! If anyone understands what I'm try to convey, please put this into laymans terms.
ssgtjohn-Leonard

Answer:
I'm no expert at chromaticism, but have been working on incorporating more leading and neighboring tones into my playing. I play mostly blues and R&B so have to be careful about too many chromatic notes which can sometimes sound too busy. Anyhow, here are few suggestions:
Try leading into a chord tone by playing from a half step above or below. Place the chromatic tone on an upbeat. One common example is to approach the major third of a dominant chord from the minor third (1/2 step below). Example: On C7, play Eb to E, placing the Eb on an upbeat.
Approach the tonic tone chromatically starting on the b7: For C7, play Bb, B, C. Again, place the "B" on an upbeat. An example of this approach is the dominant "bebop scale," which is a mixolydian scale with the maj 7th added. The maj 7th is always placed on an upbeat to make the scale come out right.
You can also run chromatically up and down from the 3rd to the 5th tone of a chord.
In general, you can run chromatics between chord tones as long as you land on the chord tone on a downbeat.
Note that you have to know your chord tones cold to play chromatics effectively. So start with the chord tones, then begin to incorporate chromatic notes. Whatever you do, make sure it sounds good to your ear and don't overdo the chromatics to where you lose the harmony or destroy melodic content. I'm sure others on this forum could give you plenty more information on this topic.

Answer:

BEFORE...you try to much chromatics...take my dom7th study above
and priint it out. Then take a pencil and draw arrows to the chord tones. Listen to the various "other" approaches_INTO_the chord tones.
Please, make sure you can_HEAR_them...going ...into the following scale tone.
NOW,,try to add chromatics within the line, using ONLY 8th notes.
Pick a few notes,maybe 2, and JUST make them chromatic. Re-write this study and add chromatics and re-do the rhythms, maybe use more triplets.
Try it with OTHER lines your playing now re-write the line WITH chromatic approaches.
Maybe,, find Coltranes " Sweet Safire Blues" solo and write out the 1st 2 chorus. LOOK, at where he's at within THAT blues...how he's comin _IN & OUT_ on the blues with chromatics. Then, follow up with a few other chorus
of same Trane solo.
Try some simple things like altering a line or lick you dig, into chromatics.
Play a phrase, using 4 notes, play it up a 1/2 step and resolve it.
These ideas, will get your EAR grounded, to hear tension & release.
You gotta be able to....BRING IT BACK INTO THE HARMONY. That means using your ear as you play the idea, so it gets some defination.
TO HEAR IS TO SEE.
Also, btw, by writing this down, you'll start to SEE where the ...beginning/middle/end of your phrases are.If you don't have that when you use chromatics it will be kinda mumbo-jumbo and not gell within the harmony AND band.
HTH- try it.

Answer:
I don't like chromaticism, per se, especially just for the sake of chromaticism...sounds boring. Plus, I usta know a tenor player that didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground and would blow nothing but chromatics on his solos. I wanted to wop'im upside the head. :twisted:
You know, nothing wrong, but nothing right either.

Answer:
Originally Posted by jazzbluescat I don't like chromaticism, per se, especially just for the sake of chromaticism...sounds boring. Plus, I usta know a tenor player that didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground and would blow nothing but chromatics on his solos. I wanted to wop'im upside the head. :twisted:
You know, nothing wrong, but nothing right either.
Just like everything else in music, it really depends on how it's used. I don't like chromaticism either if it's used indiscriminantly, for no reason other than to run a bunch of notes. But using such devices as leading tones, "enclosure," and approach notes can be very effective if done tastefully, even on the most basic blues.

Answer:
Originally Posted by JL Just like everything else in music, it really depends on how it's used. I don't like chromaticism either if it's used indiscriminantly, for no reason other than to run a bunch of notes. But using such devices as leading tones, "enclosure," and approach notes can be very effective if done tastefully, even on the most basic blues. Of course. You can't help but be somewhat chromatic in one way or the other. Let your ear/taste be your guide. I just thought I'd share my dofus friend's approach. :D

Answer:
I hear ya, jazzbluescat, and I've run into this also. Nothing worse than on a blues jam, for example, when a sax player comes up and starts running meaningless notes all over the place that have little to do with the harmony, the chord changes (even when there are only 3 chords----I should say, especially when there are only 3 chords), or the tune being played. If this is what you're talking about, I couldn't agree more. Cheers!

Answer:
I believe that it's a matter of context and personal conviction.
I have studied with Richie Beirach, Dave Liebman and George Garzone, all of whom are known for their chromatic styles and was actually shocked and even annoyed by the fact that the degree of chromaticism varied according to the playing contexts. (By the way, Garzone told me once to never push your chromatic language on others.)
For me, chromaticism is relative. It was almost 100 years ago when Arnold Schoenberg 'liberated' chromaticism. 100 years!! It's 21st century now and chromaticism and noise are nothing new at all. For me, I have listened to so much music in chromatic style by the Second Viennese School (Schoenberg, Berg and Webern), post-war serial composers (Pierre Boulez, etc.), 60's Jazz (Trane, Miles, etc.) as well as noise artists (Merzbow, Fennesz, Penderecki, etc.) that the chromaticism and noise have become just as 'normal' as the tonal language. I honestly and sincerely love their music, at least as much as any tonal artists' works. Like Duke Ellington said, there's only two types of music : good music and bad music.
If you really listen and play what you feel, your music should harmonize with the context you are playing in. Having grown up in the world in which tonal music is still prevalent, your music will probably be tonal or semi-tonal in the tonal contexts. It's just inevitable. On the other hand, if you censor yourself to be tonal just for the sake of fitting in, you are being dishonest to yourself and to others who have given you the chance to create music together.
The reverse can be said for tonal artists in chromatic / modal contexts. For an example, Sonny Stitt playing with Miles on modal tunes just doesn't cut it for me. So, the question of style is important as well. It's all relative.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Destonius .....So, the question of style is important as well. It's all relative.
True, of course. What I had in mind was a guy doing chromatic scale runs on e.g. Satin Doll on a country club/ball room dancing type gig. IMHO it sounded inappropriate and ignorant, even though he "got away with it." Even if he had done something in "organized"/formal chromatics, as you stated, it would have most likely sounded out of place at best.

Answer:
One issue these days is there is ALL this information- all these terms, techniques...but to really put them to use...you need to play, play and play.
Guys are not just jamming enough- not enough spirit. More time needed in the shed room playing with like minds for hours on end solves a lot.
To approach a technique correctly it MUST sound/feel natural.
We are looking for consistency of thought in solos. The story being told. I feel a lot of guys try stuff, and it shows an understanding of ONLY a technique, kinda like a musical muscle. ( Hey ma look at this- lol )
There is to much info out here now, people need to learn this music from the text yes...but need to learn to put the text to use. Also maybe do a study of a ballad of Miles (maybe ; Round Midnight. ) through his various periods in recordings. Listen to the development of the solo, tempo etc.Inflections.
Any saxophone player- before they get into chromatics-needs to live with ;

A Blowin' Session on Blue Note.
With ;Johnny Griffin, tenor sax; John Coltrane, tenor sax; Hank Mobley, tenor sax. All the answers are there!! Articulation,time and note placement.
Listen to those 3 styles. STYLE. Each guy stood his own ground.
Listen the _TIME_on each guys solo, the way they use rhythm. That to me, is way more important than anything, when your getting it together.
This record is a classic, if you play tenor, and don't know this, you need to.
Live with it for a few years. ( Then~Watch what happens to your playing ! )
I tell guys, whats wrong with playing something beautiful?
Listen to Coltrane play " Central Park West". Or " Naima".
Tell a story, involve the listener- play with some soul.
Honesty and straightforwardness is something that needs to be thought of more,in these days when people are blowing.
First, you got to know time, right?
If you're not fooling around with the placement of the beat, you're losing something that you could gain.Even in the 50s before players got so chromatic and out-harmonically...TIME was more important.EG- dig in with the drummer. Where was your beginning, where's your end, where's your articulation?Articulation !!!! Yea- I hear way to many cats today just playing mumbo-jumbo articulations.
These are other aspects to think about, BEFORE, you start with some harmony stuff. ( imho ) OR-chromatics.
There has got to be a frame, a certain thing in the solo.Because everything needs a frame in music.Without it, it just gets to sound the same. But I'm not sure how much artisticness there is in the music at that point, without those roots and frames.Build the building from the ground first. Not the 22ed floor.
Just some thoughts~hth.

Answer:
This reminds me of Lester Young when he was on the road in a bus at the time of Charlie Parker. One of the alto players got bored, took out his horn, went up to where Lester was sitting, and started playing all this technical stuff all over his horn. After a while he stopped and said to Lester "What do you think about that!". Lester replied "Not bad man, but can you sing a song?"

Answer:
Originally Posted by Tim Price One issue these days is there is ALL this information- all these terms, techniques...but to really put them to use...you need to play, play and play.
Guys are not just jamming enough- not enough spirit. More time needed in the shed room playing with like minds for hours on end solves a lot.
To approach a technique correctly it MUST sound/feel natural.
We are looking for consistency of thought in solos. The story being told. I feel a lot of guys try stuff, and it shows an understanding of ONLY a technique, kinda like a musical muscle. ( Hey ma look at this- lol )
There is to much info out here now, people need to learn this music from the text yes...but need to learn to put the text to use. Also maybe do a study of a ballad of Miles (maybe ; Round Midnight. ) through his various periods in recordings. Listen to the development of the solo, tempo etc.Inflections.
Any saxophone player- before they get into chromatics-needs to live with ;

A Blowin' Session on Blue Note.
With ;Johnny Griffin, tenor sax; John Coltrane, tenor sax; Hank Mobley, tenor sax. All the answers are there!! Articulation,time and note placement.
Listen to those 3 styles. STYLE. Each guy stood his own ground.
Listen the _TIME_on each guys solo, the way they use rhythm. That to me, is way more important than anything, when your getting it together.
This record is a classic, if you play tenor, and don't know this, you need to.
Live with it for a few years. ( Then~Watch what happens to your playing ! )
I tell guys, whats wrong with playing something beautiful?
Listen to Coltrane play " Central Park West". Or " Naima".
Tell a story, involve the listener- play with some soul.
Honesty and straightforwardness is something that needs to be thought of more,in these days when people are blowing.
First, you got to know time, right?
If you're not fooling around with the placement of the beat, you're losing something that you could gain.Even in the 50s before players got so chromatic and out-harmonically...TIME was more important.EG- dig in with the drummer. Where was your beginning, where's your end, where's your articulation?Articulation !!!! Yea- I hear way to many cats today just playing mumbo-jumbo articulations.
These are other aspects to think about, BEFORE, you start with some harmony stuff. ( imho ) OR-chromatics.
There has got to be a frame, a certain thing in the solo.Because everything needs a frame in music.Without it, it just gets to sound the same. But I'm not sure how much artisticness there is in the music at that point, without those roots and frames.Build the building from the ground first. Not the 22ed floor.
Just some thoughts~hth.
thats probaly the best post i've ever read on here, well said mate.
it may be a bit of a cliche, but i also think a musician has to live a little before becoming fulling grown. maybe this is why the older musicians move me more. these days i hear a lot of young guys straight out of college blowing a lot of horn, but with no real feeling.

Answer:
Originally Posted by pepper thats probaly the best post i've ever read on here, well said mate.
....
Agreed. A tip o' the hat to Mr. Price.

Answer:
Originally Posted by pepper thats probaly the best post i've ever read on here, well said mate.
it may be a bit of a cliche, but i also think a musician has to live a little before becoming fulling grown. maybe this is why the older musicians move me more. these days i hear a lot of young guys straight out of college blowing a lot of horn, but with no real feeling.
Thank you Pepper-
I agree about the living longer thing.YES. :)