Question:
Military Love/Hate
Okay, I'm working in a military band which shall remain unnamed. I got in after I finished my masters degree. I've been in for two years. It seemed like the smart move: good band, good pay, pretty cool people. I was already married when I got in. Now we have a six month old daughter. We bought a house a year ago and are really starting to enjoy it.
BUT...the concert band isn't challenging my musicianship, there are guys with more rank that keep telling me to wait my turn, there are a lot of people who are more military than musician, and whenever I ask what happens to people who put in their 20 years and get out it seems that none of them are still in music. In fact, a lot of the people there now seem bored with playing. It's really bumming out the younger guys.
BUT...I've read the "working pros" page on this foum...it's hard to get out there and make a living and support a family. On my worst day I really can't complain about this gig. If it weren't for the gig I wouldn't have a house, I'm getting some school loans paid off, the birth of my daughter cost us $0. And they sent me to the World Saxophone Congress on THEIR nickel this past summer. I don't get all the practice time I want at work, but I've got lots of free equipment that I can keep, not to mention I haven't bought reeds in two years.
So why am I so bummed out? Why do I want to stay but still want to leave? Any thoughts/wisdom are welcome from any military, non-military, former military, professional, amateur...whaddya think?

Answer:
I'm in the military music program. Best thing I could have ever done was to come back in. I'm renewed in being a full time musician. I was giving up on the outside. I've done nothing but music my whole life, so that was a big step to say that I quit music.
I've been back in a little over a year now, I was out for 14 years. I've seen guys that were all sour on the gig, and some that were just fine with it. So, I can relate to what you're saying.
I think that you're inspiration has to come from you and not the gig. Most people say, Wow, your a musician, how cool is that? But in reality, it can be playing the same songs forever and ever and ever.
I fight that by staying in the shed, buying new method books, going out to hear live music, and keeping my personal goals for myself high. The gig is never going to be enough to keep you interested. It will get samey-samey, but if you continue to work at growing and setting goals, it can be just a part of it, not your whole musical life.
Also, get some outside gigs. That is a great way to interact with other musicians and keep yourself fresh.
There's a lot of pluses to being in the military band. The key is to keep yourself excited about playing the horn and I just remind myself about how life was on the outside hustling work. That's a good reality check. Also, like you said, you have a house. I currently live on a base and I have no bills, no rent, no utilities. Lots of amenities on the base as well and all Free for us.
One more thing. I try to never let the sourpusses get to me. I'm not a machine or happy smiley all the time, and there's gonna be gray days in whatever you do, but I am a firm believer in the saying, Attitude is Everything. I try and find the good in every day and let the stuff that maybe I don't like as much just roll off my back. For road trips, I always carry CD's with me and listen to as much music everyday as I can. That's a great way to stay inspired.
Regards,
Kenfen

Answer:
I am not in a military band, and know very little about it. It sounds to me like a good life. Especially if you have the free time to do as Kenfen suggests, and do your own thing on that free time. Perhaps some of your buddies would want to try putting a band together (outside band). You could call yourselves, The Grunts. Or The Swabies, or The Jarheads. What ever branch you are in.
Sounds like a great life to me. I wonder how your wife likes military life. And how will it affect your children. How will they be restricted, or encouraged as compared to civilian life? Will they go to college with military financial aid?
I am too old for military but it sounds interesting. I would like to know more. Hey, why not get a film crew and do a documentary on military band life. I doubt that the average person like myself knows anything about the type music you all play. Where, and for who do you play?

Answer:
Hello, Quentin!
I went early retirement after about 18 years in regular Air Force and can say the retirement bucks are nice. That's one thing to consider. Another is a career full of networking, that could help you land a fulfilling career on the outside after military years are over.
Here's my experience with military bands. Back in 1980, a fellow trainee started a band in training school. Of course I joined, playing clarinet to get out of cleaning details involving raking dirt or toothbrushes in latrines. Saturday commander's calls absolutely swung! Superman theme was really big back then. Our trainee conductor went on to join SAC band, eventually lead it, and retire to become honcho of the Morman Tabernacle Choir.
I never forgot what a thrill it was to hear live, professional bands at those miliitary functions--ceremonies, dances and parties alike. Don't ever forget your music, be it Sousa, Sinatra or Salsa-- has an impact on morale beyond what gratitude listeners can express. Guess if I had to admit tears in my eyes these days, it's for flag raising, flyovers, and that music I once marched to. Those memories come back every time with faces of friends and experiences that shaped soldier lives and this country.
Consider this a salute to you.

Answer:
Sounds like a toss up between excitement and security. I'm a weekend warrior kind of player, coulda been but never was, now I work a corporate day gig and play weddings and clubs on weekends. I face the same dilemma in my day job - underchallenged, watching seeming incompetents get ahead for all the wrong reasons. But, it's a comfortable living, and I don't have what it takes to go out and start my own business with all the risks that entails. Like others have said here, you need to find a way to come to terms with it in your head, or else deal with the uncertainties of a less structured musical lifestyle.

Answer:
Well, when i read posts such as the first one here, i'm reminded that people often mix up playing music/entertaining with the pursuit of earning/making a living.
In the case here, the two are mostly incompatible. The days of making a really viable living off of 100% playing music are pretty much dead. Too much technology, too little demand/economics, and way, way. too much supply of wanna be pro musicians.
Put all of this together, and you've got the current music scene.
Historically speaking, when you look back at the height of the live music era, which was in the 1930's-1945-ish, the thing that made it all go was captive audiences, with adequate transportation to the venue. No TV, limited radio, limited stereo, and being captive in your local town, all meant that when a new musical/entertainment group hit town, you'd be more likely to wander on down to the club and supply the economics that'd make it all happen.
Today, otoh, is too easy to veg out on the couch, watching a video of xxxxx group, or maybe pop in the bootlegged CD of your fav artist, and give it a listen.
Problem is, the CD & the video were made once, will be forever preserved as a fab rendition of whatever, compared to the old days, where every listen was live, and different from the one before.
SOooo, when evaluating the current scene & economics to determine whether there's any way to make it happen for YOU...TODAY, you've gotta take a look at what's left in the way of live venues:
- military. Yup, it's still there; however, talk to anyone who was doing it in the 1970s or so and you'll find out the military has since downsized a LOT; not so many groups left...however, could be viable if you find a gig that matches your interests, $$, and most importantly, YOUR personality(not for me!)...PLUS, you need to understand that you'll ALWAYS be working when other people are off work. That means holidays, weekends, nights, etc....
- cruise ships - appears to be some interesting stuff here. Upside is might be a nifty gig, $$ could be good. Downside is living on a boat, plus, what little i know of this seems to indicate you'll have to have a roommate(a big downer for me). All in all, probably worth a look and a trial.
- pro symphony gig - forget it, if you're a wind player. Way too bad of odds, and while sometimes the $$ can be good, if you ever really look into this, get a hold of a complete rehearsal/performance schedule from the year before - you'll be shocked at the amount of crap most pro sym groups have to do(and the hours needed to do this) just to make the $$ work. LOTS of crap to go thru, just to play Mahler once a season.
- gigin'/club scene - tough, tough, tough. For every gig in the big city that might pay barely enuf to live on, there's a million gigs in the boonies that pay $50/nite...hard to live on THAT!
So, my conclusion, after tooo many years looking at all of this is that it may be better to line up a non-music, high paying gig, then you'll be able to pursue music stuff on the side, without having to worry & scrounge for you next $.
As an aside/alternate approach, say that one was hell bent on being the next great jazz sax-o-phile...well, one approach might be to make enuf $$ in another field that one could retire and open a jazz club on the beach...not a bad life, plus, all the jazz you can stand.
AND, one more for your consideration - please be aware that what you -think- might be a nifty lifestyle at age 25 might just -not- be what you'd want at age 45; take this into account and plan accordingly...
Don't shoot the messenger, just callin' it like i sees it...

Answer:
Originally Posted by Kenfen I try to never let the sourpusses get to me.
That is going to be an issue no matter where or how you work. For me it works well to ask myself
"Do they have the right to [reach in me and] change MY emotional state?"
That helps keep them at arm's length. They can whine on their own time -- I've got more important work to do.

Answer:
food for thought
Originally Posted by Lyle I am too old for military but it sounds interesting. I would like to know more.Where, and for who do you play?
Y'know this is another thing I love/hate.
We play some really nice halls, some community center type halls, and right on down to your average gymatorium in the local elementary school. I guess if I were in the New York Phil I'd always play in a symphony hall. Otoh, I think it's great that we play in small town venues too. I'm from a small town and I still remember a couple of bands touring and being quite inspiring. I wish there had been more.
As for people...no matter where we play I see mostly "old folks" and I mean white hair from the retirement home. Of course, I've been playing for old folks since I was in HS. I thought the crowd in this gig would be more diverse. Mostly white people too. If we're representing our national heritage shouldn't there be ALL kinds of people showing up? Feels like we missed the boat somewhere. Otoh, we played this one gig...doing the Glen Miller schtick (in costume) and at the end of In the Mood there was this lady in the 5th row who obviously had Parkinson's disease...she struggled in her chair to bring herself to her feet to give us a standing ovation. Now, I hate playing In the Mood, but for that lady...I'd play it all night. It was special.
So still...love/hate
I really appreciate everyone's perspectives...keep them coming...it helps me think

Answer:
Amasax, I think you're forgetting a few things. Pit orchestra for shows. Granted you have to be a doubler, but this is some great money and in many cases, better pay than the symphonies.
These days, the honest truth is that if you want to be the most successful musician you can be, you need to really branch out and work hard in a lot of fields. You need to teach: lessons, at schools, colleges, whatever. Work your way up from the bottom. You need to double. You need to be diverse and comfortable with many styles of music so that any gig that comes your way would require only a small amount of adjustment and change in practice habits prior to it. It's a lot harder than it used to be, but you can be so much more now. The standards are incredible.

Answer:
If you stay in military band what might you see for yourself and your family ten, fifteen years from now. As I asked before will your children benefit from your staying in? As you are in longer will you have any influence on the band as to shaping it?
What might you see for yourself and family in ten, fifteen years if you get out? Will your children have the same or better benefits? Do you know any musicians who have gotten out, and stayed out? How are they doing?
Definitly an interesting decision to make. I often wonder about those forks in the road that I have passed.

Answer:
Razzy, you're right, i forgot to mention pit work; but only because this type of work is gettin' pretty thin, too. There was an article a couple days ago in either the WSJ(i think) or USA Today talking about how the opera company in Brooklyn is opening a production of The Marriage of Figaro with TWELVE(count 'em, 12) musicians in the pit, along with a conductor and a technician to run the 'virtual orchestra' computer.
Pit work suffers from the same economic problems as other music work; too many numbers needed vs. tkt/gate receipts. Plus, in the theater, mgmt. seems to not mind dumping musicians, as theater mgmt. is -only- concerned with what happens on the stage, not under it.
I do a lot of pit work in a local community theater, and it's very noticable how modern musicals have been intentionally scored to take into account economics...ain't no such things as the old style big pit productions; too expensive...

Answer:
Broadway and the Union came to an agreement last year didn't they? We ended up losing jobs.... but at least there are some musicians left. I predict in the future, you'll see 4 or 5 keyboard guys playing all the parts in those shows. I know the sample biz, and it's gotten way better.
I looked at all these options before I came back to the military. How many people are fighting to get those few little jobs?
Right now, I just talked to a friend of mine in a military band. He says he's doubling on Tuba and working extra because they don't have a Tuba player and don't know when one will be coming..... huh? Work just sitting here waiting and no one to fill the slot.
There's jobs waiting to be filled here. :shock:
As far as the kids better off etc. Well, sure, my kids are going to be better off because I have steady employment. Will I be better off? Of course, I have job security. I can concentrate on music versus hunting for work all the time. I also lost weight to come back in and am on a permanent exercise program of my own design. That's another reason I came back.
It's not for everyone. I'd be the first to say that, but looking around the industry as a sax player, it was a great choice for me personally. :D
Another thing, I'm not a gloom and doom person. If there's a will, there's a way, so I think each person has to choose what is best for their situation.

Answer:
Having a job was the main motivating factor behind me becoming a nurse. Plus I wanted to do something to benefit society. I can get a job anywhere, any shift making decent money. The drawbacks, I deal with death and dying on a daily basis. It becomes very hard to relate to people. I have to please other people constantly, often getting blamed for things not of my doing or just because **** happens. I have to exchange my time to make money, and I do not always have much free time. I can make extra money easily but it requires getting off my *** and woking overtime. I don't have much time to practice. I play because I have a great horn and I love playing it. The only time I play with a group is if I go to a blues jam or there is a local band that will let me sit in on my nights off. I don't work dayshift because I don't want to deal with all the administrative BS. Most "normal" people don't understand my lifestyle, let alone my behavior. I have to have balance in my life, and this works for me. I use music to deal with stress. I've been an ICU nurse for 18yrs, I can't stop doing it. It is as much of who I am as playing the saxophone

Answer:
Quentin:
I asked the same questions except I was in college for music back '78. Started questioning how I was going to make money in the business. Choices performing arts or education. Working in the performing arts to coin a phrase "it's a jungle out there" and I think that was covered in other replies. Seen excellant musicians fall by the wayside trying to get by gigging then working in small retail stores to get by. Figured maybe I'll teach found out that is equally as tough: bugets tighten up and the music program gets scaled back or eliminated in some worst cases.
The only thing I knew at 18/19 was music. If I continued on in a degree in music, it still would be the only thing I knew. Nothing wrong with a degree in music but I questioned the $$. So I joined the military as an MP. I still played but in the base band; just needed a back up plan if the music didn't pan out.
When I got out of the military I stopped playing; just plain lost interest. Went back to school got my degrees and now working as an engineer. After almost 20 years I missed playing music. Picked it back up playing at a local university.
Looking back I think the ultimate gig would be what your doing now. It beats digging a ditch and sleeping in it or on a rack floating in the ocean. Choices you can stay your 20 and then retire or get out when your tour of duty is up. Say you get out before your 20 and you are gigging & getting some money. Will you have a pension and enough money for a college fund for your child{ren} with your gigging outside the military?
I think it soul searching time. How many years you got left? Your degrees are in music? What is your plan B {backup}.

Answer:
Think about how many people have thoroughally weighed their individual situations and want into the military bands more than anything else (hence the fierce competition). This goes to show just how many advantages there are to the military.