Question:
Much thanks if you can help me with this problem!
First of all, I'd like to thank in advance everybody who reads this woefully long post, and thank even MORE those who take even more time to write a reply to it. I appreciate your help greatly! I'm trying to write this post so that each progressive paragraph goes more in depth into my problem. Feel free to stop reading at the end of any paragraph and post a reply (or leave, whichever you like :)).
Normally a tenor sax player, I'm playing bari sax for our school musical (The Scarlet Pimpernel, if you're curious). There's no sax part in the music and both of our bari players are in the cast, so I'm playing the bassoon part on bari. Yesterday we had the first rehearsal and I noticed two major problems. One, I have to take breaths insanely often, and two, high notes sometimes "choke" and fail to come out whatsoever, even as early as high G. I'm using a Yamaha 5c mouthpiece, a typical two-screw lig, and a LaVoz medium reed. I'm not sure what kind of bari it is, but it's relatively new and my friend plays on it with no problems. What could be going on?
The Yamaha 5c is a typical beginner mouthpiece and I just bought it, so I don't think the problem is there. I got the ligature at the same time as the mouthpiece, but somehow it apparently got bent, because it's not completely circular. Though it looks to fit the mouthpiece well, even when I tighten it all the way the reed wobbles when I try to move it. Is this bad? I'm fairly sure that the problem isn't with the sax. My friend, who plays it in the band, says it's an awesome horn, and he himself is quite awesome, so I trust him. The bari does have some problems, however, which my friend might simply be "blowing through." The neck screw is missing and an actual, now-irremovable screw is in its place. Inserting and removing the neck is a challenge. Some of the metalwork seems to be loose and there's a vibrating metal sound on certain notes. The right hand thumbrest is messed up, as is the metal cover above the low C pad, among other such seemingly insignificant little issues. In short, it's a good bari that plays well, but it's evident that's it has taken over four or so years of marching band abuse. I'm not sure what, if anything, these mechanical problems add to MY problem.
As for the reed itself, I probably need a different strength, but I can't figure out which way I need to move. One the one hand, the fact that I have to breathe a lot seems to be a clear indication that I need a softer reed. But I'm not having any problems whatsoever playing the lowest notes, which is always my biggest issue on tenor, and which should be an issue on the bari, too, if the reed is too hard. Furthermore, from what I know, difficulties in the upper register are indicative of a too-soft reed. When I stick almost the whole mouthpiece in my mouth and place my lower lip closer to the vamp of the reed, I can get some of the high notes to speak. As I understand it, the reed is softest at the tip and gets harder as you go towards the vamp, so the fact that I can play the high notes using a harder portion of the reed seems also to show that I need a harder reed. My instinct tells me to get a harder reed, but it'd be really bad if I got one and my problems got worse.
On my tenor sax, of course, I have none of these problems. Another friend's dad, who sold me the tenor, also threw in a mouthpiece. I'm not sure what kind it is, but it's metal, long, and very skinny--no wider than the reed. It has written on it "Designed by Arnold Brilhart" or some such thing, along with "3-67" and "*6." I like it a lot. The intonation is very even--low notes are pretty much fine, while almost anything that uses the octave key is very sharp. I have no difficulties with the high notes, despite them being horrendously out of tune. I have to drop my jaw quite a bit to avoid completely sounding like crap on them. This may be either because the horn is leaky (it's old and I haven't taken it to a tech), or because my embouchure is too tight. My point is that I may have transferred this embouchure to bari, because when I make an effort to loosen up on the Yamaha 5c, it seems to help with the high notes a little. I think, also, that my tenor piece is somewhat higher quality than the beginner Yamaha, so maybe I've been "spoiled" by a good mouthpiece.
Another problem I had yesterday was that I couldn't find a good way to hold the sax without hurting my right thumb or getting the dang horn caught on my pant leg. Once I figure out a better playing position, though, I think I'm still going to have to fix some problems. What I don't know is what I have to fix. Here's where you can help me out:
--What kind of embouchure work should I do?
--When I buy a new reed, should I get one that is harder or softer than the LaVoz medium?
--The ligature isn't bad, but it's slightly loose; what kind of role might this be playing in my high note and breathing problems?
--Have I been "spoiled" by playing on a good tenor sax mouthpiece, thus making the switch to a beginner bari piece difficult?
On a side note, even with all these problems, playing on the bari is a blast and WAY more fun than either alto or tenor. I'm having a grand time and I really only want to fix this stuff for the sake of my orchestra director, who's conducting the pit--I don't want to her to get mad at me for sucking. Fixing the bari and buying another mouthpiece are two things that are definitely not within my list of options, but if you have insights on how they may be affecting me, please let me know, so that I can try to work around them. Otherwise, ligature/reed/practice suggestions are all welcome. Again, thank you very much for reading this, and I'll be immensely grateful if you have anything at all to say about it!

Answer:
Best I remember, Bari takes a significantly looser embrochure than tenor. Also, the mouthpiece you are playing on tenor is probably a brilhart level air 6*. The * on the old Brilharts means a short facing which equals harder to blow. The fact that you go sharp in the high notes on tenor may mean too tight an embrochure on tenor. The result is for the same embrochure pressure on bari you should probably be using a much more open mouthpiece. Try just relaxing a whole lot when you blow the bari 5c with a soft reed--just enough embrochure to keep the air from escaping and no pressure from lower jaw, just from your lower lip. Also give the high notes more air support (more air through the mouthpiece) and see what happens. You will probably have to adjust tuning position with a different embrochure.

Answer:
Boarass,if you are already playing tenor and alto,Yamaha 5C might have too closed tip for you,especially with medium reed.Try LaVoz medium-hard or 3 1/2-4 strenght.Check the horn with leak light,especially for leaks in the upper stack.Try moving the ligature upside down so the screws are on the top of the mouthpiece.I agree with Mike W. that bari embouchure is looser than tenor or alto,relaxed but in control.

Answer:
Re: Much thanks if you can help me with this problem!
Originally Posted by Boarass The Yamaha 5c is a typical beginner mouthpiece and I just bought it, so I don't think the problem is there. I got the ligature at the same time as the mouthpiece, but somehow it apparently got bent, because it's not completely circular. Though it looks to fit the mouthpiece well, even when I tighten it all the way the reed wobbles when I try to move it. Is this bad?
Anytime the reed moves can cause problems. You may not be able to get the reed to sit correctly on the table. With a bari reed having more surface area, it's easy to get it out of alignment with the rails and tip. See if you can find a new lig to try out.

Answer:
Wow! That was some impressively fast feedback considering I only posted this morning. Thank you very much, guys!
Rats! It seems I rushed a little in buying the mouthpiece. I assumed that since I was a beginner bari player I'd need a beginner piece, but it looks like I should have tried to get something a little more open. I can still play the thing okay for the most part, though, so I guess I'm going to have to put in some extra practice time after our rehearsals end to work out the new embouchure you suggested.
I tried turning the ligature upside down, and it indeed worked wonders. It takes a bit of fussing around, but I can eventually get it so that the reed is perfectly aligned and doesn't wobble. My band director says that "trying out" ligs on a bari sax is tougher than for the other saxes because bari mouthpieces are all different sizes and it's tough enough to find a ligature that fits, much less one that works. This one seems to be good enough for the moment, though.
I'm planning to get a Legere synthetic reed so that I can just use one reed for the whole duration of the musical. We're going to have a lot of practices, and as crunch time approaches they're going to become really long. I fear cane reeds will die out too quickly and I *hope* that using a synthetic reed won't create any additional problems. I still can't tell, though, if should get a harder reed or a softer one, because while a harder reed might help with my embouchure problem, it might also make me have to take breaths even more often. Hmmm :?:
Thanks again for your aid! If anyone has any more thoughts on this issue, please post them by all means.

Answer:
I would definitely suggest looking for a larger mpc, the 5C is to small and wont allow youto get the big sound needed from the Bari. You can try some of the Runyon's and look around for a used mpc. This is where I would be starting.

Answer:
Definitely too soft reed for the facing opening.
For example, I play a Vandoren MP with about 0.120" opening, and Vandoren Med. reeds which are about equal to Lavoz Med. hard. (Note that I am a bari specialist, playing mostly bari for almost twenty years now, and saxophone for twenty-five years, I'm forty years old, so my general embouchure strength and experience is going to be different than yours.) Your Yamaha MP is probably about 0.080" and you already indicated your tenor embouchure is on the tight side. This is why the reeds are closing up on you.
For the short run, try harder reeds. Running out of air is part of playing bari. You will only overcome this with lots of time and experience. I don't believe the harder reeds on such a closed MP will make the running out of air problem significantly worse, as they would on an open piece.
For the longer run, you will have to soften the embouchure. The bari embouchure is like the grip of a Labrador Retriever on a duck, firm and strong but soft. Playing with a softer more flexible embouchure will enable you to play more open MPs and softer reeds which will allow you to get more out of the bari. But this takes time to retrain your instincts and you may lose tone and dynamic range till the changeover is complete.
In general I believe you will always do better on all saxophones with a medium strength reed and medium opening MP with a firm strong yet flexible embouchure. If you read interviews with name players you will generally see that except for rock and roll, most use medium openings and medium reeds. I feel the harder reed on a closed MP limits flexibility, and on an open MP takes away the ability to play softly or with control. With my setup I can play ppp on low Bb and then play out over an entire big band for solo work. It even has good punch for rock and roll.

Answer:
Your tenor mouthpiece is a Brilhart Level-Air. A 6 is a nice middle-of-the-road piece. Many guys used to play Level-Airs but very few do anymore except old guys who don't want to change (LOL). It's a decent mouthpiece but somewhat one-dimensional. A very similar modern piece is the Runyon Metal Quantum (Runyon made Level-Airs for Selmer after Brilhart sold out).

Answer:
It's probably good that you spell your screen name, boarass, with "boar" rather than "bore". Maybe it is relevant to the boa-type snakes as in "boa"rass (harassment of the boa).
I would like to branch out and try to play bari. My main concern is whether I have enough lung capacity ... if the bari takes more air than does the tenor. I played clarinet for 4 decades without any lung capacity problem - as a matter of fact, i feel oxygen deprivation before I can completely blow a lungful of air through the clarinet. But, my tenor takes much more air than my clarinet does and I have to breathe way more often. Just from a physiological point of view, I believe I am too old to be able to develop any additional lung capacity.
But, I'm getting better at not having to breathe so often (on tenor) but I am concerned that the air requirements of bari will be beyond me.

Answer:
Interesting note on lung capacity. I'm hoping to try a bari later this week for the first time. I probably have less lung capacity than average due to a medical problem, and I'm certainly not getting any younger, but I am still going to give it a try. :) I may find myself breathing every other note, but oh well.

Answer:
Learning to work WITH small lung capacity.
Hey guys,
As a professional Bari man one of my joys is being creative about where I take breaths. I play with a double embechure and even though I work daily on long tones to improve my airstream focus and soforth, I have to breathe a whole lot more than anyone else in a sax section. So, I've gotten used to creating places to breathe. The most common is on beat three (in 4/4 time) when I'm playing a string of whole notes. I breathe quickly then play a quarter note (same pitch) on four to lead me into the next whole note. Use your head. Try to do it at the ends of phrases, or at most every other bar. If the tune is loud and you're having to take breaths for each whole note, use the quater note trick in the first bar, then in the second just cut the note off on four, or vice versa, so you don't attract attention by playing a repetitive figure. It's unlikely that any director will notice that you're not playing eight whole notes in one breath but when they realize you've made music out of an impractical passage, they'll thank you, and maybe ask you to write it in.
I gigged with a guy who told me that he got called once to fill the bari chair in the Mercer Ellington band for a night. He was thrilled. He couldn't wait to read all of those teriffic bari lines that Harry Carney played. Much to his dismay, he got to the gig to find that most of the bari parts were nothing but whole notes. Harry embelished constantly, making up his own part. He could do that because number one, he was Dukes pal, and two, he was the bari player. Being the bass voice of the entire horn section is a little like being the lead (lead trumpet.) You can add things here and there within the idiom to take tunes to another level. At the same time, you can easily get away with changing your part to accomodate your lung capacity because unless you're playing a soli, or the bass bone is right with you, you're probably playing a line that no one else has. So, don't be afraid to take some liberties, and if a director asks why, tell the truth: you HAD to take a breath and did your best to make it musical. If the director has a different suggestion, by all means try it out and go with it if it works.
Good luck, and don't forget long tones, long tones, long tones.
-Grant