Question:
I never knew it was so hard
Just had to post. This is a total vent...
After playing with a small (6 pc) group for about 5 months, a guitar player friend of mine and I decided we wanted to play something other than jazz standards. We've been trying to get a band together and it is amazing how hard this is.
First, there are those who will only play for $$$. No good for us since we're just forming and haven't really worked out all the songs we want to do. I also find it amazing that some players think they can just walk into any situation and play. They must think they're so good, they don't need to rehearse. I wish I could say the same for myself but the truth is, I need to practice and rehearse in order to really feel as though we're in the groove together.
Then there's the scheduling conflicts. After several attempts, we pick a date and time only to find one person calls at the last minute and cancels. Then, everyone else bails....no jam. This is a real killjoy!!!
Personal thought: if it was a paying gig, I'm sure I'd become top priority...everyone would show! Is that the only way to end scheduling conflicts???
I've not had any problems jamming once the group actually does gets together. I've found when we play, everything else fades away and we all really enjoy the time - and the music we make is awesome (to us anyway)!
So, how do you get guys to come and keep coming to rehearsal...or do you just skip rehearsal and hope it all works out? How can I find people that just want to have fun and play? I've tried CraigsList, BandMix, and other message boards. If you have any good suggestions, please let me know.
I guess for now, it'll just be a duet with me and my guitar player friend....maybe that's not so bad!!! (We can, and probably will, keep playing with the small group I mentioned before, but it would be nice to play some new stuff.)
Whew - I feel better now!!! 8-)

Answer:
Originally Posted by CSharp First, there are those who will only play for $$$. That's many of us. At least those of us who are doing this for a living. Is that who you're calling? Do you want pros or hobby players?
Originally Posted by CSharp I also find it amazing that some players think they can just walk into any situation and play. They must think they're so good, they don't need to rehearse. Again, that's many of us. We know the tunes, the format, the keys, the styles? Why rehearse what we already know?
Originally Posted by CSharp Then there's the scheduling conflicts. After several attempts, we pick a date and time only to find one person calls at the last minute and cancels. Then, everyone else bails....no jam. This is a real killjoy!!! Folks get paying gigs. We have to take them. It's how we make a living.
Originally Posted by CSharp Personal thought: if it was a paying gig, I'm sure I'd become top priority...everyone would show! Is that the only way to end scheduling conflicts??? Yep. Book me for a paying gig, and that's my top priority. I'll show. It's a professional commitment. Invite me to a freebie jam, however, and I can show if nothing important comes up. Sorry if that sounds crass or material, but you're dealing with folks who do this for a living.
Originally Posted by CSharp How can I find people that just want to have fun and play?
Find people who do it only as a hobby. But expect that be a factor to in how well they play, too.

Answer:
Al covered it pretty well. It's called reality. However......
That doesn't mean you can't find players who will put in some time and rehearse, if there appears to be some sort of payoff. Any chance you can land some paying gigs in the future? Can you find some players at a jam session who would be into putting a band together? That's one approach. As Al implies, those who can play well probably already are in some demand and can get paying gigs. This is especially true for bass players and drummers. And it looks like that's what you need--the rhythm section. Yeah, it can be difficult, but if you get a rhythm section and the music you make really is awesome, you'll want to make a demo cd and get some gigs. Then you might be able to keep it together at least for a while.
Speaking of which, if you think it's hard to put a band together, here's another reality check: Wait until you see how hard it is to keep a band together. This is not for the "faint of heart." Best way to go is keep a sense of humor and try to have as much fun as possible.

Answer:
Richard,
Coming from a guy who runs a 10-piece band, I feel your pain. The more people involved, the bigger the headache.
Most of our gigs don't pay too well, so I pay the guys who wouldn't be there otherwise. The rest of us forego payment until the good paying gigs come around.
The guys here are right. You could get better commitments from lesser players, but I like the fact that I get to play with guys who are WAY better than me.

Answer:
I agree with a lot of what has been said. Unless its a group of good friends who also enjoy the hanging aspect, having a goal(paying gig) is a great motivator. Also, (and I mean no offense by this) where are you on the totem pole as far as being a musician goes in your area? The really great players in your area are like Al said, playing and can do a lot of it with out rehearsals. If you are not at that level they are, they are not going to step down a couple of notches to jam with you. Some will for money however. I know you want it to be a rewarding experience musically. Remember, they want the same thing.
Also like JL said. Keeping a group together really takes a smart and motivated individual.

Answer:
My main goal is to make music that sounds good. Once we get that going, of course we'll look for venues that pay. I'm definitely searching for people that have professional careers outside of music and playing is more of a hobbie. That way, they don't rely on money from playing.
Perhaps I'll go to some of the local music schools and post an ad for players there. Can any of you make other suggestions where I might be able to find like-minded players?

Answer:
Csharp,
I fell your pain. I've been part a rock/commercial bands for 15 years. I tried to start a creative jazz/fusion/original type thing a couple times only to be dissappointed. I even had PAYING jazz gigs and musicians would bail on Wed when the gig was Friday. Some better opportunity shows up and these "pros" are quick to cancel. I had a guy take 3 jobs and cancel EVERY ONE.
As far as rehearsals go, the group I currently play with always WANTS to rehearse but is rarely able to find a common time. When we do find time, everyone shows up 1/2 hour late (At least) The bass player hasn'd listen to the recording so he's learning it on the spot. The guitar guy is sweating EVERY detail - It's GOT to be like the recording. The horn guys - we've charted everything and can play it by site. 10 minutes and we're done.
The other issue that drives me CRAZY about rehearsing efficency. My day job is being a Middle School Band director. I KNOW how to run a rehearsal. GET IN - GET IT DONE - GO HOME. These guys will repeat the tune for an hour with comments like - "Let's do this again - it just isn't grooving." That's really helpful. :? If I ran my school rehearsals like this we'd never be able to play concerts.
AND FINALLY - The band rehearses as loud as the gigs. ARE ALL guitar players and singers - Hard of hearing.
So do I like to rehearse. NO WAY. It's like a garage band with 40 year olds.
We learn on the gigs and get tons of work. SO BE IT.
Good Luck - This is only my take on the issue.

Answer:
Originally Posted by CSharp My main goal is to make music that sounds good. Once we get that going, of course we'll look for venues that pay. I'm definitely searching for people that have professional careers outside of music and playing is more of a hobbie. That way, they don't rely on money from playing.
I'm having the issue and I'm just looking for a pianist for a duo act. It's not easy to fine someone like yourself. Sure, I can just tell someone I've booked gigs and they show up with charts to play. But I'm wanting to get time together to create a sound. I want to experiment with arrangements. I want the communication at the highest possible level so it comes through while we're playing for real.
The simple fact is pro players don't have the time or interest to rehearse. Hobbyist or semi-pros don't have the time to meet enough players who are willing to share. Best thing I think you can do is to get your skill level as best you can. Go out to open mic nights and jam sessions. Show 'um what you got. Let the people who like you and your playing come to you as your getting yourself out there.

Answer:
Tell me about it! I wanted to do something I thought was fairly simple - find a pianist to do the odd gig with, the combination of sax and piano being an appealing one to me and one who may also like to earn a few extra quid accompanying my students wishing to do them, in any woodwind exams.

Two years ago, I put ads in two local music shops and also on the Kent Music School website - guess what, no takers! Talk about frustrating!

Answer:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad I'm having the issue and I'm just looking for a pianist for a duo act. It's not easy to fine someone like yourself. Sure, I can just tell someone I've booked gigs and they show up with charts to play. But I'm wanting to get time together to create a sound. I want to experiment with arrangements. I want the communication at the highest possible level so it comes through while we're playing for real.
The best thing for you to do is book that duo gig. Let the sound develop on the job. Get paid to develop your sound. If, after a couple of evenings, you want to get together at home to run down some ideas, the pianist should be willing to do that, since there's a gig involved.
You also get to learn more about the player you chose, about how your partner handles other things on the job besides the piano. Shows up on time? Stays sober? Bathes regularly? Keeps an open mind about keys, changes, taking requests, letting people sit in, getting along with the owner? And all that. Use your gig to audition pianists both musically and professionally.
Your advice to C# about hitting the local jam sessions is spot on. That's the best way I know to meet other players and let them get to know you and your music.

Answer:
A few years ago, I sat in with a good buddy's group up north from me and later joined. They were a bunch of middle aged guys, with non-musical jobs wanting to rock out a bit and they rehearsed almost once a week. Now I can get gigs, and when I put this group to work, it suddenly dawned on me how unprofessional some of them truly were (as musicians). The solution? We cut out the dead weight, and I filled out the group with pros I play jazz with. We don't have to regularly rehearse, and we don't always have the same players, but this band is way hotter, incredibly versatile and much more entertaining than its previous incarnation. So that's what I'd recommend to anyone wanting to gig. Just hire a competent band and keep a stable of players to choose from. If they're pros, they'll only need a recording of anything special you want to do, so there's no need to regularly rehearse. The more you play together, the tighter you'll get, and doing business this way will become second nature.

Answer:
My guitar player buddy and I have decided to keep meeting on Tuesday nights. We figure we can invite others and if they show, cool, we can all play some standards and/or some other stuff. If they keep showing up, we'll try to get some songs down tight and seek out gigs.
If no one shows, we'll be a guitar/sax duo. On those days, we'll work on our own songs and get some stuff together on Garage Band. This might just turn out to be a really cool thing since the guitar player knows how to record/mix very, very well and he said he'd show me some "tricks of the trade".....and once we have some stuff tight, we'll look for some small venues that we can play (and perhaps use our Garage Band tracks for the rhythm and/or harmony).
Either way, I'll be playing with another player(s) and learning new stuff. This may just be a Win/Win situation. :)

Answer:
Stick with it!!! Hang until the "right" people come your way. Its not your career, so you need to find people with the same goals. It takes a long time, but eventually it will happen. Been going through it for 2 years. 5 drummers, 7 keyboard, and 4 bass players later.. with downtime in between every personnel transition, to start over and catch the new player up on the tunes.. we now have a complete 6 piece band... recorded demo, and are now shopping for gigs. Don't give up.. enjoy the time and experience you get playing with live people, even if its only for fun right now. We went through absolutely everything you have so far. And still struggle with rehearsal conflicts. We have to rehearse.. there's no charts.. you learn your parts off of CDs, and no-one in the band "knows" most of the material, because its not standards or rock..So it's work.
Hang in there C-sharp. It's gonna be a long road, but you will eventually find the right people.. and do what you want to do.

Answer:
Here's a few suggestions for filling out your band.
Get your song list together (work with the guitar player on arrangements and write out the charts you want to do with the instrumentation you want).
While you're getting that together sock away some money for a good demo (just four or five tunes or whatever the going consensus is). Figure on at least a couple thousand for studio time and players.
Next, get some good quality musicians and PAY them to record your demo with your charts at a decent studio. This'll go a long way to making musical contacts and starting your reputation with the players in town.
Next step, go book some gigs. With a good demo and package you can go a long way to getting paying gigs.
You'll have a professional book (with full arrangements) and a professional demo and professional gigs. And that's what every professional player wants. Then you can hand pick whatever you'd like for players.
The last thing I want to do is sit around a rehearsal while other guys try moving up the learning curve. Professional players have already done their homework and are ready to go. If you want them to arrange or write material for you then you need to pay them for that as well. It's nothing personal. Just the way of the world.
At the very least, this can be an exercise in musicianship that will strengthen you as a player and leader.
A good leader also recognizes these things and will do what is needed to make the whole band sound as good as it can. If you hire another horn player who is clearly a better soloist, don't be afraid to step out of the spotlight a little. Or any instrument for that matter. If you continue working on your craft you will only get better at it.