Question:
A lot of bari players have the same tone...
Even at the professional level, it seems that more than any other saxophone, a lot of baritone players are indiscernable from one another. I was browsing myspace and youtube today and was kind of dumbfounded. Even some bari players playing duets together sounded like the same player, doubled. It was amazing.
Does anybody know why this is the case? All that extra tubing? Simply how long the instrument is diminishing the variance in tonal colors?
Don't get me wrong, the world has its fair share of awesome baritone players with distinct voices. Carney, Cuber, Mulligan, Adams, Smulyan... but whenever I go to see a live big band, jazz combo, etc with a local pro or semi-pro bari player, the playing all seems to have that "standard tone". It seems to me like they all sound like Denis DiBlasio, if I had to put a more well-known name to it.
What really brought it to town was when I realized that, even back when I was playing a lot of baritone, I was kind of stuck in this run-of-the-mill bari sound, too. Is it the low A??
Any ideas??

Answer:
Interesting point. I've always found just the opposite with bari. It seems like, despite how much the instrument forces a similarity, so many unique voices exist. In addition to the ones you mention, I'd add Tate Houston, Henry Threadgill, James Carter, Alex Harding, Patience Higgins, Charlie Fowlkes, Charles Davis, Jesse Sharps and Pat Patrick to the list of unique voices, right off the top of my pointed head. In fact, the Bluiett bari sax group (Bluiett, Carter, Higgins, Harding) is four very unique voices. Perhaps it's the great familiarity with the tenor sound? Maybe the guys who sound the same to you are doublers? (Though Higgins, Carter, Sharps and Threadgill all fall in that category, too). I'm guessing they're doublers, because when I hear a bari player who usually focuses on tenor, I'm usually let down. A pal of mine (who's a bad MF) played my bari one time. I love his tenor -- I mean take-my-leg-to-sound-like-that-gorgeous -- but I really didn't like his sound on bari. Be interesting to see more posts on this.

Answer:
Nope, it's more likely years of playing too loudly at the bottom of a big band.
That, and high baffle pieces.
I like to think I sound different from the rest of the pack. Probably just wishful thinking on my part.

Answer:
Yeah, I think it has more to do with the "requirements" of good bari playing. Meaning, always being the fat, loud one holding up the band. Since bari really has n't that much of presence asa solo instrument, there really hasn't been a call for bari players that sound differently.

Answer:
on my playist on my ipod i have a song from "The Screenclub"(some group that some one gave a link to a full track which had the sax player playing bari for 4min, pretty good song) called blue brother and the sax player played alto, tenor, soprano and bari. The song after that is Arroz Con Pollo by ronnie Cuber. The sound sare very similar even though I admit I love Ronnie Cuber and like his sound. I sort of think I sound differnet aswell becuase i find the other kids at school happen to have a very buzzy tone and mine is clearer and i have a better range and general familiarity with how to play. I Use a Link STM and i am guessing most pros use a higher baffle which might give a different sound

Answer:
Most of the players I mentioned in my original response are known as soloists, not big-band players. Like the other bari players who responded, I think I have a fairly distinct sound on the instrument.
Merlin, just curious, are you saying a high-baffle piece prevents uniqueness of tone, or just makes it harder? I'd suggest that the player will sound like his/herself regardless of the baffle.
Another unique-toned bari: Lauren Sevian.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Merlin Nope, it's more likely years of playing too loudly at the bottom of a big band.
That, and high baffle pieces.
I like to think I sound different from the rest of the pack. Probably just wishful thinking on my part.
I too think many modern bari players tend to sound the same. And yes, the current use of high baffle mouthpieces is probably the culprit, and also just having to play full blast all the time.
I stopped playing bari ten years ago because it was no fun to just honk loudly all the time (I play drums for a living, so I can make all the loud noises I want doing that). Back then I was using a Dukoff 9 and Plasticovers just to keep up with the amplified instruments, and it just got tiring after a while. Especially because I had to practice like that to keep those loud chops up.
I got back into playing bari this year so I could make more expressive sounds, but this time I'm not worrying about gigging for cash, and I'll only do a one if it's a lower-volume deal. I do feel a bit sorry for wind players that have to blast all the time, because I think it's rather hard to be expressive that way, and to find one's own voice.

Answer:
I agree with the sometimes integrated routineness of Bari players. James Carter is a great example though as BayView stated. He's about the only one I can tell it's him. He plays his Bari like he does with that twang on Tenor.
Myself, I have tried to steer away from sounding the same from everyone else. The most easiest way I have found to do this is actually try playing more "contemporary" on Bari. Causing a kind of Barry White to come out in the Bari, which is a change from straight up jazz per say, but it gives it another expression and attitude to think about. Thus, I think you might say, I play it more tenderly and soft. Not a lot of big bank for the buck, so to speak, but truly it still calls....

Answer:
Good thoughts all, and Mark and Deezie especially, are hitting on something important: there's not a lot of call for bari as an expressive solo instrument. My experience with the horn was mostly in big bands and a sax quartet that played a lot of French lit. A bit at odds with one another so I used a middle of the road Yanagisawa hr mouthpiece and a YBS-62 that was in poor condition. I think if I were to take up the horn again, I'd likely purchase something along the lines of a Conn 12M and Link STM realm. And it wouldn't be to make a lot of cash, it would be to book some jazz gigs and take it to town...
so it seems the reasoning we are reaching here is that it's the nature of the DEMANDS of the instrument in its most common performance setting, rather than any fault of the players being mimics and whatnot... interesting... however do you think it's also safe to say that, because there are proportionally less examples of bari players and it is less available in the majority of soloistic tenor- and alto-dominated jazz recordings, perhaps developing a personal bari sound is just a tougher goal to begin?

Answer:
I don't think it's a tougher thing to begin. I feel that as you reach the point of exposing yourself to as much of the lates and gretas that you can, you eventually find pursuit and happiness of "your own" tone. I like that...your own tone....I think I'll coin that. But anyway, like Carter does, I think his sound (his voice) can be heard on all his saxes. The same voice should transmit to the Bari if you are going for your own sound. Copying is a whole other thing and falls into being harder, per what Razzy was saying but I think, if anything, selling the Bari sound is going to be harder b/c of all the leads and routine of the alto / tenor. That's why I pick the Bari as my horn b/c it gives us sax players, at least ones like us, the oppurtunity to do something kind of new to jazz, become a bari name...and I think we can all agree that even in the past there were only a handfull and today even less. All the more reason I want to stand out and create a new beginning, so to speak, for the Beast of all saxes....

Answer:
This is an interesting discussion. As a baritone-only player for 18 years (following 10 years of tenor), I've passed through my Mulligan, Smulyan, Cuber, Brignola, and Adams wannabe phases (though not in that order). Whether or not you sound "identifiable" on baritone has as much to do with what you play as as how you sound when you play it.
I don't know if I sound different from other baritonists or not, but I do know that I don't sound like most of the alto and tenor players I work with. My favorite players have always been the economists (Getz, Dexter Gordon, Desmond) and the composers on-the-fly (Henderson, Heath, Shorter). So I still try to develop lines that make musical sense, and not just spit out ii-V patterns that sound great but have no purpose other than to fill up space.
As for baritonists, I'm trying to emulate Pepper Adams's authority and Mulligan's sense of humor, Smulyan's inventiveness of line and Cuber's funkiness - without copying their notes, which I have done many times in transcriptions. I'm not too worried about the sound I'm getting, other than it needs to have plenty of dynamic range, and it needs to be in tune from top to bottom.

Answer:
I haven't listened to many bari players - if any, so I haven't based or modelled my tone or playing on anyone I know of, though I do admire the prominent bari players.
I do use a high baffle mouthpiece, though I do generally use a firm embouchure and I can get a thick broad tone, a soft wooly subtone or a bright cutting tone as well when I need to with the one setup.
But saying the bari has to honk away or play full blast all the time isn't true - baris do have an important role in big band sax sections, and sax sections have to play as a section - not as five seperate players going off on their own seperate ways (as a lot of bands tend to do here) with the lead alto showing off and playing painfully sharp, the lead tenor playing too loud all the time, the 2nd alto and tenor not putting their backs into it and the bari buzzing and farting away underneath.
There are such things as dynamics, and all good bands and sections use them (even the trumpets!) - as well as bari players.

Answer:
Great bari voices
A couple of other players that I think have their own unique voice on bari are SOTW contributor Tim Price.....his bari sound and playing is gorgeous. Another is Glenn Wilson

Answer:
I think it is because there are a lot more Tenor players out there. Therefore, a lot more room for individuality on the instrument. Or, it might just be that all us Bari players are just better players. I've always found the Bari to be easier to play, but physically more demanding.

Answer:
In big band work, the baritone is somewhat unique compared to the other saxes, and (in large part) more like a member of the rhythm section. We are required to be the foundation of the saxophone choir, but we also often switch into a fifth trombone mode. In our charts, I would estimate that about a third of them try the fifth trombone trick for at least part of the time, and I take pains to ensure that my custom arrangements don't stray in that direction.
So, it is more than just a function of the baritone as part of the sax section.
As for tonal quality, I know that I "sound" different when I do R & B than when I play other stuff. On such stuff, I "let go" and get as honky as I've heard on recordings of same. Ditto rock stuff - I'll do it differently than I would a classic "big band" chart.

Answer:
Hard to understand how you can think that Ronnie Cuber sounds like Gerry Mulligan...or e.g. Serge Chaloff...I think there is huge variety in bari voices. I also personally sound a lot different whether I'm playing big band music or R&B solo/section work. Oddly as well, nobody thought I sounded any different when I switched a few years ago from a Conn 12M to a Keilwerth, then landing on a Yani B991 as a keeper (in search of comfort)...I just sounded like me on the bari.

Answer:
I think the problem with bari players and their sound is that there are so very few true and pure bari players. Any more players have to play Alto, Tenor, Clarinet, Flute, and a few other instruments in order to make money. How many saxophonists specialize on just one saxophone voice? I have recordings of Cuber playing Tenor, Bluiett playing clarinet and Contra Alto Clarinet, Pat Patrick playing various instuments, and the list could go on.
I have a different sound than the other bari players in the area. I play Baritone Saxophone. They play Alto, Tenor, and Soprano Saxophone, Clarinet, Flute and Trumpet. I will play Calrinet but very often and I am told that I sound like a saxophonist playing clarinet.
I think the problem is that players spread themselves too thin and can not truly master an instrument.
I consider Mulligan and Carney true bari players. Most bari players have to or chose to play other instruments and saxophones. This has to dilute and disrupt the ability to play Bari with an individuality.
I could be wrong about this, but I can not help but wonder if I am not on to something when I can not tell some of the above mentioned players apart.

Answer:
David Mott is a VERY unique bari player. He's from Chicago but has been in toronto for years. He has a website with music samples.

Answer:
Not sure I agree that only those who specialize on the baritone can
achive a unique sound. The first name that comes to my mind and has not
been mentioned here (and is rarely remembered on this forum) is John Surman who is really one of my all-time favorites (after the free period of the 1970s). He's as much a bari player as a bass clarinet and soprano player, which may give more richness to his tonal qualities. Listen to him on Abercrombies'November or on the tune Piperspool (the road to St Ives). That's the quintessence of baritone soloing since he really plays alone on this last tune (with programming). His high and middle ranges are among of the most nuanced and sultry, if you like this kind of sound (but not everyone does). Hard for many folks to think it is actually a baritone sax playing. So, certainly, the instrument needs more exposure and if I like all kinds of saxes, I sometime wonder why there so many people are inevitably drawn to Tenor at the expense of the others. It's then numerically so much easier to find a voice on bari, soprano or even alto given that the field is much less crowded. Especially if you play a low Bb horn these days. Ok, here's another great and uniquely-sounding bari from Sweden, Lars Gullin, who played with Chet and Stan Getz among others. He had a few records on his own that are difficult to find but this is great stuff. He was originally a piano-player and was not a virtuoso on bari but he definitely had a sound, and a beautiful one. Happy new year from France to you all.

Answer:
yaucante - thanks for giving John Surman a mention - I'd considered saying about him, but it is relatively difficult to find recorded examples of his playing.
I remember him well, from live performances, albeit free playing with Mike Osborne, Mike Westbrook and Keith Tippett..... He had a unique tone (and extended range) even then