Question:
sax-->dynamic mic-->amp with xlr inputs-->fx loop
with a little xlr out to the board to boot. this seems like the simplest way to do it. Maybe a pre-amp between mic and combo amp.
My question is, how to find a good amp with xlr inputs? I would appreciate any feedback.
I have shure SM58, EV drum mic, and clip-on condenser (which I hardly use for reasons outlined in the earlier posts).
I had been running the mic into a Makie PA, but that band is gone and I play in a band with no vocals, leaving me to amplify on my own.
Am I crazy or would a bass or keyboard combo amp (with xlr ins) be the easiest set up?
Tate
San Diego


Answer:
In my experience, most keyboard amps don't provide the best sound for sax. Even the ones with an XLR input for vocals generally don't actually do a very good job with the vocals...they're designed as an easy solution for a solo key/vocalist..not really for a band situation. The option I prefer is to go with a powered PA speaker...Mackie actually makes a pretty decent one. The frequency response on these is generally much wider and much flatter - essentially its the same as a small PA, but you would only use one speaker. It also allows you to put the speaker on a stand closer to ear level, instead of the floor or a chair....its easier to hear and farther away from the mic for a sax player. Many of them have an XLR input as well. If you need to send the signal to the board as well, just put a small (2 channel or so) mixer between the mic and the speaker. You can take one side of the stereo out and send it to the board, and the other to the PA. You could also run an effects loop out of an aux on the small mixer. Overall, the cost would probably be about the same as decent keyboard amp, and allow you much more versatility. Hope this helps.
Tim

Answer:
ok
Thanks for the input. Has anyone tried to play through a bass amp (Ampeg, SWR...)? Probably more expensive than a mixer and powered PA speaker, but is the sound quality much better.
Tate

Answer:
I play at gigs now mic'd through a Shure SM58 or similar mikes, goign straight into the PA, and using reverb built into the PA (whatever brand and model PA is availale wherever I am.)
In the past I have tried to play sax (at stores) through various amps.
Here are some of them I remember:
Roland keyboard amp (these come in about 3 different sizes, I tried the two larger ones.) The sound isnt so good. (This amp has no built in effects.)
JBL EON powered speaker. This was very very good I thought, the salesman recommended it. (This has no built in effects.)
A friend of mine told me she used to use EON's for vocals and they are hard to move around on gigs since they arent rectangular. Also she felt the frequency response wasnt good for vocals. I think she said the low end isnt too good. I liked it when i tried it on sax.
Carvin AG100D. (See carvin.com.) I keep thinking about buying one of these. It has built in digital effects, but they arent so great. But they are ok.
Behringer keyboard amp (the one that is about $300 with a 15" speaker.) Sound is worse than the Roland amp i think. Also it is a very bulky box of an amp and doesnt seem well made. (No built in effects.)
Line 6 guitar amps. These are solid state so i tried them out. Not so great, and if you use the built in effects it is very prone to feeding back.
Fender Cyber twin reverb guitar amp. Solid state. The effects cause feedback, a lot of feedback. I was very disappointed, I wish this amp worked well for sax playing.
SWR amps:
The Strawberry model is too small of a sound, I thought.
California Blonde model: this is a good one to get. It has built in spring reverb. It is about $700 new, I almost bought a used one once.
Then i got a SWR Workingman 12 bass amp. This has one 12" speaker and also a tweeter speaker. It is very compact. I was planning on using this but then my friend who plays bass asked me to sell it to him when his amp broke so i never gigged with it. I was glad to sell it because it had hiss. IF you read the reviews on harmonycentral.com, this amp model is known for hiss. There is a switch to turn off the tweeter speaker. This gets rid of the hiss but also the hgh end response. The higher end SWR amps have dials to adjust the tweeter response.
I also tried playng throguh vairous little Fender guitar amps such as the Princeton DSP model I think. These worked ok actually, not as much feedback potential but they arent big amps so the sound would be smaller, they have small speakers.
Right now i play a gig at a place where I am miced into the PA, and the PA has an 800 watt stereo amp (400 watts a channel I think.) This goes through to two large PA speaekrs with probably about 5 speakers in each cabinet. My point is that if i were using a standalone amp it could not match the sound of the PA in terms of bigness of sound and coverage of the room.
I play at little venues unmiked or I play at places with PA's, so i havent had the need to use an amp. What i do find is sometimes the PA's are half broken and maybe there is no channel for me to plug a mic into because there is some problem with the PA (maybe they can get a mic channel in for vocals but not for me.) This is why I have sometimes shopped for an amp.
I talked to the SWR company and they agree that their SWR bass amps (the ones with tweeters or horn drivers) would be good for sax. They make a Redhead model that is about $1500 that would be great. I saw one used for $900 once.
Another good choice is the big Carvin keyboard amp (see carvin.com, they sell 2 good, big ones, and one smaller one), they make one similar to the SWR Redhead model, and it is about $900 new.
The logic of buying an amp for sax though escapes me, because if there is a vocalist, there is a need for a PA for the mics for vocalist. So you can plug into that.
If there is no PA, then you can plug both the vocals and sax into one of the 'accoustic' amps mentioned above like the Carvin AG100D.
Another one of these i didnt metnion is the Fender accoustasonic amp.
I have looked at these Fender amps also. The original Accoustonic model is cool but it doesnt have a line out. That means you cant use it for on stage monitor use and feed a line out to the PA (for big venues.)
The new model does have a line out, but they made the new model a little smaller and with one less speaker than the old model. There is an Accoustosonic Jr model too that looks good but it is smaller and less powerful.
The Accoustonic is good because it has a stereo type chorus effect built in.
It wouldbe nice to have one of these.
Another amp to consider is the Roland stereo Jazz Chorus amp (made for many years). I think this is solid state. This has either 2 10" or 12" speakers i think. I havent tried it out but it might be fun to play through that with the chorus effect.
Also Carvin just put out a copy of the JBL EON (a powered speaker) so that may be ok too.
Out of all this, I dont use an amp,i plug into whatever PA is available or play unmiked. It is less to carry.
Note: when i am talking about feedback, it is trying to play sax through a stand mounted mic such as a Shure sm57 or 58, with a cord going into the amp with the amp somewhere behind me, or to the side of me, with the amp facing the audience. This is prone to feedback with any amp.
I dont get feedback going through a pA because the PA speakers are always placed away from me, facing the audience. (This means I have no monitor.) If I used an amp, it would be somewher behind me facing the audience, presumably. I could put it to the side and in front of me, like a PA speaker and then I couldnt hear myself as well through the amp (just like using a PA with no monitor.)
Most venues I play in have either no monitors or few monitors for the players on stage, connected to the PA.
If you are doing gigs with no vocalist, and no PA, then you may need an amp. In that situation the guitarist or keyboardist will be amped and the sax will have no amp (unless you bring one.) In that situatin a Carvin AG100D or JBL Eon would work well. The Carvin has built in effects, and the JBL doeent.

Answer:
What TimH says above is consistent with that I say.
He uses a Mackie powered speaker. I liked the JBL EON powered speaker.
But if you use one of these amps designed for "accoustic" use, such as vocal plus accoustic guitar, they usually have (in addition to XLR input) built in reverb in the amp so that means you may not need a standalone reverb unit if you desire to use reverb.
The Carvin AG100D has built in digital effects.
The SWR California Blond has a a spring reverb.
The Fender Accoustasonic has either digital or spring reverb depending on which model.
The SWR bass amps have no reverb so you lose out on that. But the SWR Redhead has a built in rack mounted slot so you can use a rack mounted reverb unit mounted in there. But theamp is $1500 and then an effets unit would be maybe another $300 or so (ie a TC Electronics M1.)
The Carvin keyboard amp is similar to the SWR Redhadr and it is only about $900 but has no rack mount slot for an effects unit, so you would have to carry around a separate rack unit for an effects unit.

Answer:
Consider a small powered mixer, aka PA head. Mackie makes several, the smallest being 4 or 6 channels, I think. XLR and 1/4" inputs, EQ, digital efx, effects loop, and lots of other stuff. One of these running mono into a speaker would be more than ample for your needs.
Of course, all you would need to do is add another speaker and you have a PA.
Just a thought.

Answer:
Frank's suggestion of a mackie powered mixer and a speaker results in 3 items to carry around-- the mixer, the speaker and the cord.
[This is a lot to carry around in addision to sax(es) and mic and and stand (if you do not use a clip on mic.]
If you get one of those 'accosutic' amps with an xlr input and built in effects then you have one item to carry--
such as these amps:
Carvin AG100D
the Fender Accoustasonic
or the SWR California Blonde.

Answer:
Thanks for the replies
Guys,
I like the 4 channel idea, it would be addition items to carry, but the acoustic amps or powered speaker idea would stil require extra cords for footswitches. Those built in fx may not sound good with a sax anyway, so I would need the fx loop out either to a rack size processor or to stompboxes. I think the leading set up for me, since I want to kep it simple, is to get a bass amp with an fx loop. Just get a cord than has XLR from mic and 1/4in to the amp with an fx loop. Either use the amp volume, or turn down and have the sound guy mic the amp.
TATE

Answer:
Re: Thanks for the replies
Originally Posted by tateinsd Either use the amp volume, or turn down and have the sound guy mic the amp.
TATE Maybe I missed something, but you said in the original post, no PA, so no sound guy... so why would you have a sound guy, and if you did what would he be running a mic to?
If there is a PA run direct, and forget the amp. I also don't beleive the bass amp would have enough(or good enough) high end for the sax. Keyboard amp has a better overall freq response.
but whatever....

Answer:
Tate, the built in digital effects of the Carvin AG100D accoustic amp, for example, is comparable to the built in digital effects of a low level Mackie mixer.
The original post said he had previously been running through a Mackie mixer/ PA, but now he doesnt have PA around now, he is playing with no vocalist.
Generally the built in effects of a low level mixer/ PA can be very useful, but they are not as versatile obviously as a rack mounted effects unit pr pedals (if you are into pedals, I havent had good luck tryign them out with sax, I get a lot of feedback, the pedals (the ones I tried) are primarily designed for electric guitars, which is not a mic'd input.)

Answer:
Bill, some of the bass amps have tweeters or "horns" for the higher end.
Most of the SWR amps have these.
I was in contact with the SWR techs who told me that the SWR Redhead amp for example, would be great for sax, and I think so too.
If you look at the specs on this you will see it has a good frequency response on the high end also.
They werent just trying to sell me that amp because i was comparing it to other SWR models that werent designed for bass, such as the California Blonde model, which is designed for vocals/ accoustic guitars and other accoustic instruments.
The Redhead model is higher end, and would have a bigger sound, it has more speakers and more wattage. It is sold as a bass amp but that doesnt mean it cant be used for keyboard or sax.

Answer:
If you re-read Tate's original post it looks like he is looking for an amp setup with a linout out 'to the soundguy on the board.'
That presumably means the soundguy has a big PA he is running sound through.
IF that is the case, then you can mic the sax directly into the PA that the sound guy is running, he can add effects through the sound board. He probably has either a rackmounted effects unit connected to the sound board, or else the mixer may have built in digital effects. If he doesnt have any effects available with his setup, you can just bring your own rack mounted effects unit, in a 1 unit rack case, and have him run the sax sound through that at the soundboard.
For monitoring, hopefully the PA system the soundguy is operating has monitor speakers for the band, so there is no need for the sax player to bring his own monitor speaker or amp.
Even if the main PA has no monitor, most likely the sax player can hear himself well enough through the main PA speakers to play OK (unless the guitars are really loud.) The sound through the sax is audible through the bell of the sax itself of course.
So if there is a soundguy with a main PA, all the sax guy has to bring to the gig is his sax, and maybe a racks mounted effects unit to run through the board, if there are no effects avaialble through the main PA. Most decent sound boards, where it is professional enough to employ a sound guy, would have some facility for reverb in the system since it is typically used on vocals. I have never seen a venue that had a soundboard and PA, and a house sound guy, that did not have reverb capability through the soundboard.
As to use of foot pedals to control effects, I dont find the need for this, I am just looking for a little reverb on the sax and once I get the adjustment then I live it there the whole gig. I dont need a foot pedal.
As for volume, I change volume by how I play the sax, and also i can back off/ or move closer to the stand mounted mic, so i dont need a foot pedal for volume control either.
My discussion above is just assuming the sax player wants to keep it simple and just wants to add a little reverb to his/her sound. If the sax player wants to do all sorts of effects on the fly, ie chorus, distortion, delay, or whatever then none of the built in effects of a mixer or accoustic amp will be suffiient and the player will need to use either rack mounted effects units or pedals (good luck with the pedals, the ones I have tried that are made for guitar dont work too well for me on sax.)