Question:
More interaction as a community
I was sitting here thinking this morning that it would be great if we as a community could use this place as more of a Community teaching kind of hang. Back in the day in NY they use to hang in lofts and play together, listen to recordings together, share ideas together....... I was thinking that it would be great if this place could be more like that. Right now it seems like it's mainly focused on gear and what things we can buy to sound better. I'm just brainstorming here but it would be cool if as a community we had a place to work on things together. Ex. Let's say for one month we decide we will work on Cannonball. We share recordings somehow of great Cannonball solos. We each do transcriptions and have a place to share them or download them. We analyze solos and post our thoughts on them and discuss what's going on. We work on different aspects of our playing that come from this. Maybe record ourselves and get tips and advice. Maybe the next month we work on some Coltrane or Brecker or whatever. Maybe we work on pentatonics and each share what we know or are working on.
In order to do this it seems like we need a way to file share with an unlimited number of members but within a community not just open to the public in general. I'm not talking about sharing whole albums but tidbits of things here and there. I don't want to get into a legality thing but I just think it would be cool to have a cummunity where you could say "Dude, check out this burning solo".What got me started on this is I found this neat Bob Malach bootleg solo and thought it would be cool to share it but I don't know how.. It seems like if we were less guarded as a community about what we know then our love of jazz would extend to others and jazz as an art would prosper not decline.
I started thinking about this because I built a website for myself. I have alot of material that I've collected over the years and my first thought was to start putting it on the website for frree. All of sudden I had people close to me saying I should sell it and make some money. All of a sudden I was feeling stupid for giving something away for free that I worked so hard to attain. But then I started thinking that if I were to live my whole life what would be more rewarding to know that I made 2000.00 bucks on some licks that I sold or to know that thousands of people around the globe were able to access stuff that would help them to play better, to appreciate jazz more and to then teach others. It would seem like then everyone would have access to more and more knowledge and that jazz might have more of a chance as an art but....... how would this affect the ability of artists to survive and make a living. If everything is out there for free how would that affect the earning potential of those who need to teach for a living. I'm just kind of rambling but wanted to see what you guys thought of these things. :D

Answer:
First off, your fledgling Web site looks like it will be stellar. I hope you keep working on that project, although I know that can suck up a lot of time.

With approaching 10,000 members of the Sax on the Web, there is a kind of common denominator factor going on. If most people prefer talking about gear or searching for that magic pill that will replace practicing, then that is what will be discussed. And many of our readers are late bloomers or youngsters just starting to figure this thang out called sax. So there are some challenges to getting more professionals and teachers impetus to drop a thesis or two (crumbs before the masses) on our site.

There was a sax Web site that once listed fifteen versions of 'Round Midnight'. (The links don't work anymore.) Now that was interesting. Here are the fifteen artists that the owner posted clips from:

Anthony Braxton
Art Pepper
Dexter Gordon
Modern Jazz Quartet
Woody Herman
Charlie Parker
Jim Snidero
Jimmie Smith and Wes Montgomery
Scott Hamilton
Sonny Rollins
Stan Getz
Charles Brown
Thelonious Monk
Thelonious Monk Quartet

I can't get enough of that kind of insight, indepth analysis, and shed time. How do we move towards that? Start a thread with the intend of providing thought provoking conversation. Can't subtone? Well some teachers have the student push the mouthpiece in a quarter past the setting for in tune and then try to play the sharp note in tune by dropping the jaw. Cool, I wanna try that. How do you do it?

Don't forget, you can submit an article or two to Harri. How does an intermediate player move from kinda knowing where the beat is to internalizing the beat? There are some very cool exercises to help you with that--ones you can use in your car on the way to work or in the office. How do I move from being an okay improviser to a killer soloist? Man, I'd read that discussion or article over and over. Bring it on professor Nefertiti. It isn't likely that I can take lessons from you from Seattle. (Um, assuming you even give lessons to intermediate players.)

One other quick comment after scanning your post below, can you provide more white space in your longer narratives? It makes it easier to read, especially for us geezers.

Answer:
Steve: I'm sure many SOTW posters would enjoy doing this - seems like many posters' tastes run toward the so-called modern jazz sounds. A lesser number are classical players, and then there are folks like me (maybe I'm the only one) who are old-tyme in style and musical tastes.
Frankly, I have NO interest in Coltrane, Brecker, Parker, or any of the other famous beboppers or modernists. Yes, I admire the way they can get around their instruments and the control they display, but the sounds they emit do not speak to my heart.
True, no one would force me into this endeavor, but I thought I'd share my perspective since you asked.
Another thing you hit on could be a problem. Intellectual property rights is a HUGE controversy - file-sharing being among the sub-topics that generate heat. Unfortunately, I don't think a casual file-sharing thing, even INSIDE the SOTW community is a good thing. Yes, many of us would treat the material with respect and privacy (if copying someone else's work could even be considered private), but there are those who would not be careful and eventually it may get outside the circle. At that point, tempers flare and the legal system goes to work. I don't know how you would control it. A casual meeting in a loft is one thing - doing it on the Internet is rife with problems, I believe. DAVE

Answer:
Originally Posted by Gandalfe There was a sax Web site that once listed fifteen versions of 'Round Midnight'....
<deleted text>

I can't get enough of that kind of insight, indepth analysis, and shed time. How do we move towards that?
Gandalfe, I must comment that I am pleased and impressed. I remember that website (if it's the one I'm thinking of, though I've not checked it out in several months). Truly there has been much progress since the "War of 2003", if we've reached the point where the best aspects of the Net's various saxsites can be rightfully held up as praiseworthy. In general I still have very little faith in humanity's future, but I am very pleased with your post.
Yes, that was a really cool idea, except for the file-sharing concerns, certainly.
BTW, I prefer the version by Linda Ronstadt, personally. :)

Answer:
Yo Steve!
Don't know if you've checked them out recently, but the "Post Your Own" threads (vanilla (jazz), beginner's, and classical) fill some of the needs you identified: folks post clips of their playing for general review and it sometimes stirs discussion about tone, theory, etc. In the case of the big "Post Your Own" thread, they used to do a "Song of the Week" thing where everyone would do their own version of a standard and guys would compare notes.
If I read you right, you have a more ambitious goal: communal learning - I'd love to participate in one of these - you're right - you can get a lot of insight listening to the ideas of your peers - I know I always benefit from listening to see how other people explain their approach to a song.
You going to start the first of these "intensives"? I wonder if we can use a fileshare capability without violating copyright by posting "clips" (solos for instance) instead of whole songs?
Good idea - go, man, go,
Larry

Answer:
Dave: You aren't alone as a lover of old music. I've got a CD of Adrian Rollini's work and I love it to death.
Larry: Though I'm not a copyright specialist, or anything like it, I suspect that if you post the clips in a file format that is only playable as a streaming clip (like the Real Player format), it isn't a copyright violation.

Answer:
Steve,
Fantastic idea... there's not a lot of opportunity to do the kind of thing you are talking about locally (although a few of us try!).
As Larry said, the "Post your own" thread used to have a sub-thread that was focused on a "song of the week", where we'd each post a particular song, discuss it, and provide feedback to each other. Folks still post actively, but the song-of-the-week thing petered out a bit.... Maybe it would be good to split that to a separate thread that has a moderator that picks the weekly song? That'd be great. There's MUCH I can learn from others (like you!) that have much more experience, talent, and insight than I. And hopefully, as an avid listener, I can provide some useful insight in return...
Pete

Answer:
I still think I learn a lot more by just getting together with actual musicians and sharing ideas. All the talk and records in the world won't leave half the impression that one beautiful live note will, you know? It's good to go to a place where it's possible to get involved with a group of musicians and share ideas. My brother is a fantastic musician and he provides an endless wealth of different perspectives and a person to really just bounce ideas and sounds off of in order to foster creation... as an example. Not everybody has that available of course, but it's definitely possible to find it through this site.
That's why I see SOTW more as a vehicle to learning and a jumpstart to get us all going out searching than the means of the journey itself... but there's still a good deal of that going on, in the post a clip of your playing threads. I think those are really valuable for everybody to be observed and everybody to observe and discuss with their fellow players. I learned a lot from this site and the most valuable pieces of info are the simple things like "practice makes perfect" and "go out and get yourself heard". Music IS a community effort and we can only do so much on the internet. Maybe talk a buddy into taking up the bass and get together and jam after a couple of months?

Answer:
Neff-
I think it is a fantastic idea that may take some ingenuity to pull off.
I certainly agree there is no substitute for playing with other musicians - in fact I pay for the chance to do so twice a month as part of a 'Jazz Band Masters Class' septet with professional instruction. At the other end of the spectrum - the Aebersolds / music minus one, etc. are great. I think something along the lines of what you are proposing would serve as an excellent bridge between the two (particularly for a novice such as myself). It would also be great for those who live in remote areas with few musicians - or others whose schedules are too crazy to get the chance to jam live.
Regarding the issue of intellectual property - there have been postings to the effect that it is allowable for educational purposes. Even so, I still think you'd be inviting some legal troubles - and though you may be in the clear - defending yourself would be costly.
What may work better - but be much more difficult to manage - would be offering some sort of Napster type service with more reasonable pricing. There ain't a lot of lesser known Jazz available on the current mp3 download sites. If you were to set up a site that offers a wide variety of multi-genre Jazz (and even instrument specific classical) music- it could be expanded to allow anyone (including SOTW members) access to some great music -including stuff that is out of print or nearly impossible to find.
Rather than the 99 cent per song price most sights are doing now - maybe the downloads could be offered for the cost of royalties plus website operation costs? Who knows what that may be? As long as the royalties are paid (to ASACAP?) - you'd be in the clear.
It would be great if we could all upload what we have, and then just charge ourselves for what we download.
I'd love to have access to Dave's Sidney Bechet collection without going through the years of searching and acquisition he has already gone through. Could you imagine some of the stuff Tim Price has? Add the great things our posters from Europe and the far east have in their collection which were never marketed here? Ahhh - love a good pipe dream 8-)

Answer:
First, I want to mention that I'm probably going to start a "community project" (look for it in a bit) here on SOTW and I'll see what kind of response we get. The project will eventually become an article for .
Again to highlight something that Gandalfe mentioned: ANYONE can submit an article to Harri (admin-at-saxontheweb.net) to include on . No, not all articles are accepted and the lead time can be fairly long, but heck, he publishes my stuff and all I do is write opinions and do research :D.
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COPYRIGHT: the rule on SOTW is that you only post stuff you own the copyright to. The best possible thing I can say regarding posting music is only post links to legal content. If the link is to a l337 w@rez 'site or some sort of file sharing paradise, that's not appropriate for SOTW.
I do know some copyright law -- for the US -- but remember that SOTW has a global membership, Harri (SOTW's owner) is from Finland, and our webhost is in the US. Laws are a bit variable.
The US copyright law says that you CAN copy a snippet of whatever if that snippet is going to be used for educational purposes or if you're writing a review. In practice, you can be sued by anyone for anything. I'd hate to have someone tell our webhost, "Hey! You can't post that! Shut down that website!" and see SOTW go "poof!" overnight.
In my practice, I have thousands of sax pictures on my website. If someone complains that I have a picture of "their" saxophone and they have a problem with it, I generally remove it -- even though the copyright law says I don't have to (i.e., I'm not selling "artistically styled pictures" of anything on my website). Why? I just don't need the hassle. Life's too short.
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Now, for me, I don't care at all about technique, mouthpieces, hearing other players, etc. I'm all about the instrument itself. That's my focus.
Y'know the Lindemeyer book, Celebrating the Saxophone? (If'n you haven't, buy it -- and not only because he posts here.) It's not something I would have written, because it's a saxophone history based on the people that played the horn, rather than the horns themselves.
I'm not going to stop people focusing on something else, tho, and I'll actively support growth in other areas on SOTW, but you'll primarily see my posts in the Model-Specific areas -- when I'm not trying to install updates, etc.
I also somewhat dispute that GAS (gear acquisition syndrome, for the folks that didn't know) is the most popular thing on SOTW. I think that it ranks very high in popularity, but I also think that the reason for this is because people want to become better players and I think that's more of a description of what the SOTW Forum is about. Heck, we've got dozens of areas that cover just about any sax-related topic.
As always, if'n you think an area should be EXPANDED or ADDED, please submit a request in . I guarantee you that even if nobody votes for it and the SOTW staff likes the idea, it'll get done.
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Now, if someone wants to start a full website that has either links to where to by excellent jazz stuff or is a jazz mp3 paradise, I'd be interested in that and I'd definitely promote it on my own website.
It be very difficult to start a website that would allow $person to upload $tune $whenever. Licensing is very, very difficult. I can see an iTunes-like service where $person could upload stuff, but before those uploads could be downloaded by someone else, the website's owner would have to get permission from $tune's copyright holder.
Even if it's streaming media.
Currently, I don't see how someone with less than several millions in disposable income could set up something like this. I could only see someone creating a website where there are links to already extant content.
Hey, maybe SOTW members could fund this, though (note Harri has to approve fundraisers posted on this website). I'd kick in a couple bucks for a share in this company: I'd think I'd recoup my investment.