Question:
L:ink or M2.. (sound clips)
Ok guys, hope you all aren't tired of me yet. After this thread I think I will stop posting for awhile and just practice. I got a chance to try out both pieces and I like them both honestly. The M2 is definitely brighter, plays louder, but isn't as even as the link across the ranges. It can really scream and play loud and that is definitely needed for what I do now. I got quite a few squeaks, but think that is because I'm using a lig that is not made for the M2 and the reed is a 2.5 and kind of old. The link on the other hand has a much more solid tone to my ears, deeper, darker, and more quality. When I switched the reed to a 2.5 it does play louder than when I used a 3 (previosu complaint), but still no where near the M2.I am thinking about keeping both of them, but maybe trading in the M2 for an M1, which isn't as bright.
Here are some recordings of both. I am no pro player or close to it, yet, but which mpc do you guys think sounds better? Should I just keep both and use them when needed (go ahead and buidl my mpc drawer now?) or just dump one concentrate on the other for a good while?
STM:
M2:
*edit* title should say "Link"

Answer:
Here's what you can do to make the Link (or the Ponzol) sing:
Push the mouthpiece just about as far onto the horn as it will go. Then, drop your bottom jaw until it's in tune. Next, pull the corners of your mouth in like you're saying "OH".
You're getting a "pinched" sound because you're pinching with your bottom lip. Let the bottom lip be more of a cushion and let the support come from the sides of your mouth. Don't jut out your bottom lip, but just keep it in a position where it sits square on the reed in a natural way and don't use your teeth to pinch, but rely on your embochure muscles. Your mouth is going to get tired when you do this right, but it's like lifting weights with your mouth - the more you practice the stronger your embochure will be.
The slap-tongue that you're getting from the Ponzol is from the reed being too soft and too much bottom lip pressure.
Hope this helps!
Greg

Answer:
Originally Posted by GHawk Here's what you can do to make the Link (or the Ponzol) sing:
Push the mouthpiece just about as far onto the horn as it will go. Then, drop your bottom jaw until it's in tune. Next, pull the corners of your mouth in like you're saying "OH".
You're getting a "pinched" sound because you're pinching with your bottom lip. Let the bottom lip be more of a cushion and let the support come from the sides of your mouth. Don't jut out your bottom lip, but just keep it in a position where it sits square on the reed in a natural way and don't use your teeth to pinch, but rely on your embochure muscles. Your mouth is going to get tired when you do this right, but it's like lifting weights with your mouth - the more you practice the stronger your embochure will be.
The slap-tongue that you're getting from the Ponzol is from the reed being too soft and too much bottom lip pressure.
Hope this helps!
Greg Thanks a lot Greg. so no matter whether I'm in tune or not just put the piece about as far as it goes and just compensate the neck position with a loose embouchure? is this to be used as just an exercise or is this how I want continue playing after I get used and comfortable?

Answer:
First off, equipment is not your problem. You need some shed time.
It sound to me like you're biting as you move into the upper register. Greg offers good advice about not using undue lower lip pressure on the reed. All you are doing when you bite is to close the effective tip opening of the piece and you have less reed working. If you change the amount of reed working depending on what register you're in, you're likely to get an uneven sound. One huge thing I've come to learn over the past couple of years is that if your horn and piece are setup correctly, you don't need to change emboucher to suit register. Airstream and tongue position is enough and it keeps all of your reed working for you.
I wouldn't go as far as Greg as to pushing the piece on as far as it will go. I've learned other ways to achieve to proper emboucher formation that don't place that kind of requirement in setting up your horn.
What I think really needs work is your airstream. It sounds to me like you're breathing from your chest and not your diaphragm and also that you are running out of steam very quickly on phrases. Do you raise your shoulders when you inhale?
In my opinion your playing is not at the level to be spending time and money chasing equipment. You need to find a mentor whose sound you like and is willing to give you some tips to take to the shed.
Good luck and keep at it.

Answer:
Originally Posted by m3pilot First off, equipment is not your problem. You need some shed time.
It sound to me like you're biting as you move into the upper register. Greg offers good advice about not using undue lower lip pressure on the reed. All you are doing when you bite is to close the effective tip opening of the piece and you have less reed working. If you change the amount of reed working depending on what register you're in, you're likely to get an uneven sound. One huge thing I've come to learn over the past couple of years is that if your horn and piece are setup correctly, you don't need to change emboucher to suit register. Airstream and tongue position is enough and it keeps all of your reed working for you.
I wouldn't go as far as Greg as to pushing the piece on as far as it will go. I've learned other ways to achieve to proper emboucher formation that don't place that kind of requirement in setting up your horn.
What I think really needs work is your airstream. It sounds to me like you're breathing from your chest and not your diaphragm and also that you are running out of steam very quickly on phrases. Do you raise your shoulders when you inhale?
In my opinion your playing is not at the level to be spending time and money chasing equipment. You need to find a mentor whose sound you like and is willing to give you some tips to take to the shed.
Good luck and keep at it. I agree with you on all points. While I had the money just trying to get the best I can at the moment. I really needed that input, because I've been doing that for awhile and could hear my tone and sound was not sounding any better. You guys, I guess heard it as well and steered me in the right direction. I do pinch when I get higher and my breathing is terrible. I do run out of air very quickly. So, breathing properly is another focus point. I've got a lot of work to do. I 'm going to just keep what I got and hit that shed. Thanks guys

Answer:
Just to reiterate what others have said:
Don't bite, and fill that horn up with air. Only the two most common problems with developing one's chops.;)
You have two good mouthpieces and a great horn there, so we know it's not the equipment causing problems. Just keep working away carefully, and you'll get past it.

Answer:
It sounds like you like the Link more. I woud hold on to that andlearn to play loud. One tip that the bandleader at my community music center has given me lately is to tune the middle B and C, not the high ones, that way, if I'm biting up top, i'll be forced to drop my jaw to play in tune. It works.

Answer:
JBroad,
Get two books - both by Larry Teal - "The Saxophonist's Workbook" and "The Art of Saxophone Playing". These books will give you a technical workout and improve your sound. I lived in "Workbook" for four years in college. One of these books - I forget which one - describes how to get a good sound using the technique that I mentioned (pushing the piece in and pulling in the corners). It works.
Greg
Oh...I forgot....keep us posted on your progress!

Answer:
and put a new reed on the Ponzol! by old do you mean used? if so, it will have conformed to a different mpc's facing curve and will not respond properly.
and ditto on all the other stuff, plus do the mpc exercise... on tenor, blow the mpc&reed alone and get a concert G. this will give you feel for proper embouchure pressure. and then do some tone matching between the natural C2 fingering and the overtone, when you get the same timbre with both you should have the mpc in the optimal position and have a good centered tone.

Answer:
Mecca
Is blowing a G on the mouthpeice necessary foor good tonal quality. I personaly play a B above the G on a tuner with just the mouthpeice. Is this me pinching to much or is it ok.
BTW im learning sax player in High School

Answer:
Originally Posted by Kabisk Mecca
Is blowing a G on the mouthpeice necessary foor good tonal quality. I personaly play a B above the G on a tuner with just the mouthpeice. Is this me pinching to much or is it ok.
Your embouchure can be relaxed a LOT.
Admins, is there not a FAQ on the mouthpiece exercises? I thought we had one from Swooshie on the old board. Did it get lost in the transfer to the new setup?
Similarly for breathing exercises.
I really don't care about circular breathing or teaching extended range techniques to players of fewer than 5 years but they need to find the basics easily.

Answer:
here's a good explanation on Charlie A's site
I haven't viewed this video, but here is another link
BTW there is a post from Shooshie, but he just explained who he was and how it came to be, didn't really go into the exercises, but they were inspired by Joe Allard. There used to be a article on Runyon's website, but I'm not sure if it's still there.

Answer:
Anyone looking for Paul Coats' articles should go to saxgourmetdotcom.

Answer:
Thanks for the link, ill try it out and report back what the difrence in tone quality and response is

Answer:
Actually you need go no further than the main Sax on the Web site.


Answer:
As a side note on pinching I find that when a younger students (middle school aged) gets a professional model horn they often blow the upper register very sharp. It seems like student horns are more forgiving allowing a student to get away with pinching.
One such student of mine plays her student yamaha perfectly in tune but plays her new custom Z terribly sharp from middle D up from pinching. I have been working with her to get that jaw down and she's improving. Last week I had her try an sx90 and a yamaha 875 just to satisfy my curiosity and she played sharp on all of them. Interestingly, the pinching did not effect her pitch on a bundy II and a student yamaha.
It makes me wonder what it is about the design of a pro horn that requires a proper embouchure and air stream.

Answer:
Originally Posted by Bill Mecca Actually you need go no further than the main Sax on the Web site. Bill, how does one find that link from scratch? Thanks.

Answer:
Originally Posted by gary Bill, how does one find that link from scratch? Thanks. not very easily my friend, not very easily...

Answer:
Gary: Bill, how does one find that link from scratch? Thanks. Bill: ...not very easily my friend, not very easily...
LOL. Well - you did answer the question. Just like my son. 8-)
Gary: "Hey Kris, do you know how I can get to Mannheim?"
Kris: "Yes".

Answer:
Gary,
I am still very much a kid...I can't remember how I found it, I knew they were still there, but had to go thru and find something about beginners, and then sound production. like Hansel and Gretel I left a trail of breadcrumbs, but alas....