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Its where the camera zooms in on a subject but the background zooms out. It cant be computers casue Hitchcock used it a few times. Very effective and id like to know how to do it.
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Zoom in towards the subject with the lens and physicall pull the camera back away from the subject.
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Known as a contra zoom I think. Alternatively, you can push the camera forwards on tracks, and zoom out at the same time.
EDIT: - Nicely used in Vertigo I seem to remember.
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Thanks for bringing this topic up guys. It's one I'd also wondered about for ages ! :clap:
Jonathan.
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I would assume rear projection, or more recently blue-/green-screen, would be the most common methods.
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This effect is often known as a "push-pull" shot. It's a fairly tricky shot, and if the zoom doesn't match the dolly movement precisely the result can look extremely bad.
Similar effects are sometimes achieved by putting the subject on a crane and physically moving them closer to the camera.
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The other classic example is the zoom-in on Roy Schneider in Jaws. The method is described in the Documentary on the DVD...
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You can experiment rather crudely with it by using a zoom camera whilst riding in a car. Just point it towards the windscreen and zoom out. (Whilst vehicle is in motion :p )
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Originally posted by Robby
You can experiment rather crudely with it by using a zoom camera whilst riding in a car. Just point it towards the windscreen and zoom out. (Whilst vehicle is in motion :p )
or play an FPS game that has a weapon with a zoom mode, then zoom in while walking backwards.
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Originally posted by Nicky Ray
Known as a contra zoom I think.
Doh!
I got told many moons ago this was called a flat zoom. Having just done a search for that and contra zoom I'd say you are spot on the money. No wonder I got blank looks using flat zoom convonversation :oh-hum:
ta for putting me right.
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On one of the Hitchcock DVD documentaries it mentions that the effect was actually invented by one of the 2nd unit camera men on Vertigo.
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I think it was Hitch that made it famous (IMDB has it down as Irmin Roberts who invented it for Vertigo). It's all done for real though, no rear-projections etc ;)
There's an excellent example (tribute) in E.T. as well (and of course Jaws as mentioned).
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Also look out for a very slow/long one at the end of Panic Room.
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Must be hard to control the focus as well. Especially if you're zooming in on say, someones face.
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There's an excellent contra zoom in Goodfellas when they are sitting in the cafe. It's very slow but the background is continually zooming in while they remain static. It's almost right.
This is a very hard shot to pull off as there needs to be perfect timing between the grip, focus puller and camera assistant (who is probably operating the zoom.)
It's also the shot that low budget British film makers appear to love and cock up.
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This is used to good effect of this kind in Wes Craven's New Nightmare.
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I always thought this was called a 'reverse zoom and dolly'?
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It gets called lots of things. All the grips I know call it a "dolly-zoom" so go figure.
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I simply know it as the 'Vertigo shot'.
It is used very well in Carlito's Way, cause its real subtle too.
Basically a car is in the background, parked. You hear dialouge between Carlito and his girlfriend and the Vertigo shot begins. When it ends it has zoomed right into the car and suddenly their are loads of police officers surrounding it which you couldn't see before because the background was being zoomed out. Its very nice!
{That's the way I recall it anyway:p**
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Good example of it in L'Haine too, not as smooth but nice impact for the scene its in.
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It's the kind of effect that only seems to be used once per film for some reason. I guess to heighten the effect and because it's difficult to set up. There's a good one in Scarface - De Palma obviously likes using them.
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Originally posted by Robby
You can experiment rather crudely with it by using a zoom camera whilst riding in a car. Just point it towards the windscreen and zoom out. (Whilst vehicle is in motion :p )
[or play an FPS game that has a weapon with a zoom mode, then zoom in while walking backwards.
I have tried the FPS one on Unreal Tourney with sniper rifle!
LOL
I tried doing a really crap contra zoom on my Hi8 camcorder and it looked so dire.
:)
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Darn it - I was gonna mention the use in Goodfellas, but ChetLee beat me to it :D
I'm 99% sure the famous Vertigo shot uses a model and was filmed horizontally (rather than having the camera above the model).
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Originally posted by neeek
It's the kind of effect that only seems to be used once per film for some reason. I guess to heighten the effect and because it's difficult to set up. There's a good one in Scarface - De Palma obviously likes using them. Well Charlie's Angels uses it twice, once for Nat's boyfriend to be reaction shot to her "flipping her god damn hair" and again for the bridge chicken run. McG refers to it as a "push-pull" on the commentary track for the record. As people have said, a tricky shot to pull of, since as in it's general use the main foreground object is kept the same onscreen size the physicial camera movement and the zoom out have to be syncronized just right, and then maintaining focus on top of that.
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Also Jude Law's first appearance in 'Road To Perdition' uses this as well but it's very subtle and hard to notice.
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Originally posted by tips4tnt
I'm 99% sure the famous Vertigo shot uses a model and was filmed horizontally (rather than having the camera above the model).
Yup, I remember seeing a behind the scenes documentary with the model and camera both horizontal.
Also, in my opinion the shot in Vertigo isn't really the same as those in the other films mentioned. Although it uses the same technique, the effect is very different.
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Originally posted by GrossePointeJack
Also Jude Law's first appearance in 'Road To Perdition' uses this as well but it's very subtle and hard to notice.
Yeah I was going to mention that one - it works really well with the framework of the overhead train track.
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Seeing as we're bandying names around i think it's also known as the 'trombone shot' in certain circles :D
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>Darn it - I was gonna mention the use in Goodfellas, but ChetLee beat me to it
What's interesting about it is that rather than just repeating the shot in the same way that previous filmmakers had, ie to express shock/awe/surprise etc - Scorcese came up with a new use for it. The scene in which it occurs is all about De Niro's character trying to find out where he stands with Ray Liotta's character, now that the latter has been caught by the cops. So the shifting visual perspective of the shot echoes the shifting nature of their relationship. Clever, huh!
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Originally posted by BenH
It gets called lots of things. All the grips I know call it a "dolly-zoom" so go figure.
The proper term is ' triple reverse zoom' so you are all wrong! :p
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Used in LOTR Fellowship of The Ring just before the first encounter with the Nazgul, when Frodo says "Get off the road, quick!" Quite a nice use of the technique as there is no Roy Scheider in shot to focus on, just empty space. Nicely creepy.
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Originally posted by Robby
Seeing as we're bandying names around i think it's also known as the 'trombone shot' in certain circles :D
I know it as a Chinese dolly and if we are spotting uses, how about Jackson in LOTR 1 when the ringwraiths ride up the road, before the fellowship hide under a tree.
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ZIDO - zoom in dolly out ... is the tech term we would use
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Bored so googled for the above terms...
contra zoom - 27
push-pull shot - 16
flat zoom - 40
reverse zoom and dolly - 0
dolly zoom - 240 (pretty generic and can mean dollying in and zooming in)
Vertigo shot - 88
trombone shot - 12
triple reverse zoom - 0
ZIDO - 4430 (means a host of different things)
zoom in dolly out - 11
Chinese dolly - 45 (lots of link to dolls that are asian)
Don't prove anything really but interesting to see 88 references for "Vertigo shot" ;)
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Before I knew any better I always called it the Jaws shot. It's still an easy way to let people know what you mean.
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Originally posted by rhog
Bored so googled for the above terms...
contra zoom - 27
push-pull shot - 16
flat zoom - 40
reverse zoom and dolly - 0
dolly zoom - 240 (pretty generic and can mean dollying in and zooming in)
Vertigo shot - 88
trombone shot - 12
triple reverse zoom - 0
ZIDO - 4430 (means a host of different things)
zoom in dolly out - 11
Chinese dolly - 45 (lots of link to dolls that are asian)
Don't prove anything really but interesting to see 88 references for "Vertigo shot" ;)
push-pull zoom - 223
So I win! :p
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Would the exact opposite of this shot be possible? Push the camera in to the target object whilst zooming out, to keep either a constant distance, or maybe to zoom out even further?
Obviously you'd have to start with a zoomed in shot of something first, so you could do the zooming out.
What the hell would it look like? I'm struggling to get my brain to visualise it.
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Originally posted by The Bear
Would the exact opposite of this shot be possible? Push the camera in to the target object whilst zooming out, Er, that is the standard form of this shot:p. The FotR shot though is the reverse, ie pull back while zooming in(it also has another difference in tha there is no central point of foreground interest, instead its the gap between the closest trees left and right which is kept constant). "Which way round" it is can be told from the background, since the appearence of the background is largely controlled by the zoom not the camera movement(this being the essential trick of course).
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Thanks guys, i've wanted to know what the hell that shot was for ages.
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Originally posted by Mr Nice
Er, that is the standard form of this shot:p. The FotR shot though is the reverse, ie pull back while zooming in(it also has another difference in tha there is no central point of foreground interest, instead its the gap between the closest trees left and right which is kept constant). "Which way round" it is can be told from the background, since the appearence of the background is largely controlled by the zoom not the camera movement(this being the essential trick of course). Oh ok!! It's just that the first couple of posts were asking about the zoom in, pull out version.
I thought that the zoom controlled the foreground object, and the background by the camera movement. Obviously I've got it all a about t!!:D
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IIRC something similar was done using this method on Little Shop of Horrors (The musical) when you first see the plat grow properly. Frank Oz on the commentary track talks about it
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Originally posted by The Bear
Would the exact opposite of this shot be possible? Push the camera in to the target object whilst zooming out, to keep either a constant distance, or maybe to zoom out even further?
Obviously you'd have to start with a zoomed in shot of something first, so you could do the zooming out.
What the hell would it look like? I'm struggling to get my brain to visualise it.
Unless my brain is playing tricks on me, in Vertigo it zooms in and out a couple of times, causing a feeling of, well...
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Sam Raimi uses the technique to death in his Spaghetti Western homage <I>The Quick And The Dead</i>.
We're talking reverse dolly zooms while rotating the camera! :nuts:
Incidentially it's on TV next week! :thumbs:
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Originally posted by Garry Cowell
Incidentially it's on TV next week! :thumbs:
It's on Film4 like every other week :oh-hum:
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This months hotdog magazine did a little guide on how this shot was used in jaws with a little mock up of roy scneider and his missus
hth
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There's a great example of it in Quiz Show too when Van Doren finally loses and it zooms in on him from behind his head in the booth.
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Its used in "Me Myself and Irene" when Carrey is in the diner and he turns into Hank.